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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 5130118" data-attributes="member: 386">That's actually an interesting sequence if you look at it as a skill challenge.I.1. The PCs decide that they are going to go through the pass by Caradhras.2. The DM thinks, well, who's going to stop them?  Saruman, that's who.  This could work as a skill challenge.3. The DM sets the Complexity and the level*.4. The DM sets the scene: "Crows, blah blah blah."5. The PCs take actions.  "We hide."6. The players roll.  They fail.7. The DM determines the outcome.  Saruman knows where they are heading.II.4. The DM sets the scene: Travelling through the snowy pass, blah blah blah.  Arcane winds, blah blah blah.  Avalanche, watch out!5. The PCs take actions.  Gandalf tries to out-magic Saruman.  (Magic works differently in Middle-Earth; in 4E, maybe they're both trying to Control Weather - in which case, Gandalf is rolling Nature.)  Yes, Gandalf is probably the only PC who could do anything in this situation.  Sometimes that's the case.6. The players roll.  They fail.7. The DM determines the outcome.  An avalanche blocking the pass.At this point I think the PCs say, "Screw it, let's hit Moria."  They are no longer contesting with Saruman but instead the Goblins and Balrog in the Deep.  Basically, they abandon that skill challenge.  Which is cool, that's something you need to allow.* - I set the DC based on what the PCs are going up against.  Sometimes I use Will, sometimes a level-based DC (based on the level of the opposition), sometimes passive skills.For I.6, I'd use the magic crow's Passive Perception as the DC.  Maybe there's a ritual that uses Saruman's Arcana skill; in that case, I'd use his Passive Arcana.For II.6, I'd use Saruman's Passive Arcana.If they had trudged on through the avalanche and I didn't know what Saruman could do, I'd set the DC based on Caradhras' level - probably Hard, since, you know, avalanche.</blockquote>

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