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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5342196" data-attributes="member: 7006">See people... this is exactly why I created this rule of thumb... because looking at how many of you are arguing the wrong points, it tells me that when actual D&D rules arguments occur, one side just hasn't really been paying attention to what been written.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />It doesn't matter how many posts I have made or whether you currently have more or less posts than me... because I am not currently arguing for or against an official 4E D&D rule.  So you cannot use my rule of thumb to prove or disprove the existence of the rule of thumb itself.Secondly... I also must remind you that having a high post count does not automatically mean you are always correct in a rules argument.  Don't get so high and mighty on yourself.  There are two reasons why you wouldn't be.  One, it depends on the person you are arguing with, because while you might have 7,000 posts... the person opposite you might have 8,000, and thus you are probably wrong.  And second... post count doesn't matter at all if five other people (or one DracoSuave) are arguing the opposite side of the rule.  All that matters is the number of people... and their post counts have no determining factor in this one.  If you have 5,000 posts, but the people who say you're wrong include five folks with post counts of 2,500, 1,200, 835, 800, and 37... you are probably still wrong.  In fact, it doesn't even matter than the combined post counts of these five people doesn't even add up to your post count (let alone 1,000 posts over yours)... because subsection A does not require the main part of the rule of thumb to also be correct for the subsection A rule to be true.(That being said... I realize that I think I've been erroneously calling it subsection A... when that really I guess shouldn't be true.  Because I did not mean for the first rule to also have to be correct when looking at the subsection part.  I really intended for either rule exist independant of each other.  I probably should have just made a second Rule of Thumb.  Unfortunately, I'm not really up on exactly these kind of proofs should be worded.)And in response to DracoSuave's question... as far as your inquiries pertaining to the subset of DracoSuaves... remember that your presence in the argument does not change Post Count at all.  Your part of the rule applies only to the number of people part of what I shall now call Rule of Thumb 2 (rather than the previously erroneously identified subsection A)  Thus you do not have a 'Effective Post Count' at all.  You are worth 5 people in Rule of Thumb 2, but have no impact on Rule of Thumb 1.So as an example for Rule of Thumb 2... if one side have 3 people arguing for it, and the other side has 11, at that point the smaller side is probably right because you need at least 5 times as many on the other side (i.e. 15) for the second rule of thumb to come into effect.  But say at this point, you, DracoSuave, chime in with a vote on the side that has 11 people.  As you count for 5 people (as per the subrule of the second rule of thumb), the totals are now 3 on one side, and 16 on the other... and thus the side with 16 is now probably correct.  That's how you get applied.Finally... as far the question of DracoSuave versus Hypersmurf in a rules debate, it gets very tricky to determine. Because both my rules of thumb and Jack99's rule of thumb can be applied at the same time, but will produce some difficult-to-parse results.  As far as DEFCON’s Rule of Thumb 1: “When two people take opposite sides of a D&D 4E rules debate, if one of them has more than 1,000 posts over the other, the higher person is probably correct.”… DracoSuave has over 4,600 posts, Hypersmurf has more than 25,000.  So with this rule of thumb, Hypersmurf is probably correct.  However, because Draco counts as 5 people with regards to DEFCON’s Rule of Thumb 2: “When many people take opposite sides of a D&D 4E rules debate, if one side has five times as many people than the other, the higher side is probably correct.”, then it is 1 Hypersmurf versus 5 DracoSuave, and thus applying this second rule means Draco is probably correct.  Right now, the probabilities are equal that either can be right.  However, when we then apply Jack99’s rule of thumb: “If you are arguing rules with Hyper, then you are wrong or masochist.”, we run into difficulties because Jack99’s rule does not give any indication of the proportion of wrong people to masochistic people.  So without that proportion… we are unable to determine how often DracoSuave is in fact wrong versus how often he is masochistic.  Until Jack99 applies a percentage to his rule of thumb… it cannot be used to effectively determine rules debate incorrectness between DracoSuave and Hypersmurf.I humbly request Jack99 to amend his Rule of Thumb so that this question can more accurately be determined.</blockquote>

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