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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7013722" data-attributes="member: 16814">I picked an easy example.&nbsp; Also, there are some uncommon magic items (as in, the most available ones) that massively exacerbate this issue.&nbsp; Gloves of theivery, luck stones, etc, all accelerate the point at which DCs become wonky.The other real issue where expertise does wonky things is opposed rolls.&nbsp; Expertised stealth on a rogue pretty much means almost nothing sees them with passive perception by as soon as 8th level.&nbsp; This may be more the fact that passive perception was ignored by the designers, but expertise makes it worse.&nbsp; By the time a rogue hits 11, there's little besides a few angels, beholderkin, and ancient dragons and adult dragons that will notice him at his worst.&nbsp; But he has a much better than even chance to beat those few.If it's an automatic success, why would you disagree?&nbsp; I mean, sure, for things that there's a chance of failure, but that wasn't what I was talking about.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7013722, member: 16814"] I picked an easy example. Also, there are some uncommon magic items (as in, the most available ones) that massively exacerbate this issue. Gloves of theivery, luck stones, etc, all accelerate the point at which DCs become wonky. The other real issue where expertise does wonky things is opposed rolls. Expertised stealth on a rogue pretty much means almost nothing sees them with passive perception by as soon as 8th level. This may be more the fact that passive perception was ignored by the designers, but expertise makes it worse. By the time a rogue hits 11, there's little besides a few angels, beholderkin, and ancient dragons and adult dragons that will notice him at his worst. But he has a much better than even chance to beat those few. If it's an automatic success, why would you disagree? I mean, sure, for things that there's a chance of failure, but that wasn't what I was talking about. [/QUOTE]

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