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<blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 5742628" data-attributes="member: 59248">[MENTION=81104]Dr_Ruminahui[/MENTION]: Some good points.&nbsp; Although 4e still does have abuses you can exploit, really (without breaking the rules, which is for obvious reasons verboten.&nbsp; The kobolds get a kind GM; they don't get a cheating GM). The most obvious, of course, is line of effect.&nbsp; With abuse of the LoE rules, the PCs area either auto-hitting them or never hitting them.The second and primary idea, naturally, is to include traps at the PCs level even if the kobolds are far below it.&nbsp; If they can lure PCs into traps that will give them a challenge, they don't have to be able to hit.&nbsp; This is one way that &quot;crafty kobolds&quot; can do damage without being able to make hit rolls.Now, regarding being able to make hit rolls themselves...it's kinda neat if they don't have to (beyond a few &quot;bosses&quot;), but while I think that levelling them up to -4&nbsp; from the PCs is excessive, a -6 is fairer -- it's only technically a -3 penalty, so it's pretty easily erased with combat advantage and teamwork.&nbsp; Actually, even -8 is basically a -4 (or maybe -5) bonus -- so on attack, kobolds attacking with combat advantage and in teams (for the +2 bonus of &quot;aid attack&quot;; teams of no fewer than 3 are best here; one to work the reveal/hide mechanism (such that the kobolds are only attackable during their turn); one to aid attack, one to fire) can easily get a +4 bonus to counteract that.I love the reflected terrain idea.&nbsp; I'd make it a shimmery substance; when hit with area attacks that extend beyond the &quot;wall&quot;, it reflects them instead in a mirror image.&nbsp; After the first or second incident, the players would get that the shimmer was a telltale, but predicting what would happen would still be tricky.&nbsp; (Also, I'd expect the player to make a try of getting some &quot;reflect&quot; for themselves).The biggest grounding of Tucker's Kobolds that are defeated by the existing game, BTW, is the assumption that PCs aren't that great at mobility.&nbsp; The &quot;flaming debris&quot; trick the kobolds used just wouldn't work well in a modern game because PCs can fly, jump large objects in a single bound, teleport, etc.&nbsp; So today's kobolds need to be a lot more sophisticated in terms of messing with mobility and visiblity (don't forget visiblity; do you know how many of PCs tricks are completely hosed when they can't see or can't see what they want to?&nbsp; I'd not realized how many of my Avenger's tricks were tied into sight until she got blinded at 16th level, more or less taking her out of the fight until she could save!).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mneme, post: 5742628, member: 59248"] [MENTION=81104]Dr_Ruminahui[/MENTION]: Some good points. Although 4e still does have abuses you can exploit, really (without breaking the rules, which is for obvious reasons verboten. The kobolds get a kind GM; they don't get a cheating GM). The most obvious, of course, is line of effect. With abuse of the LoE rules, the PCs area either auto-hitting them or never hitting them. The second and primary idea, naturally, is to include traps at the PCs level even if the kobolds are far below it. If they can lure PCs into traps that will give them a challenge, they don't have to be able to hit. This is one way that "crafty kobolds" can do damage without being able to make hit rolls. Now, regarding being able to make hit rolls themselves...it's kinda neat if they don't have to (beyond a few "bosses"), but while I think that levelling them up to -4 from the PCs is excessive, a -6 is fairer -- it's only technically a -3 penalty, so it's pretty easily erased with combat advantage and teamwork. Actually, even -8 is basically a -4 (or maybe -5) bonus -- so on attack, kobolds attacking with combat advantage and in teams (for the +2 bonus of "aid attack"; teams of no fewer than 3 are best here; one to work the reveal/hide mechanism (such that the kobolds are only attackable during their turn); one to aid attack, one to fire) can easily get a +4 bonus to counteract that. I love the reflected terrain idea. I'd make it a shimmery substance; when hit with area attacks that extend beyond the "wall", it reflects them instead in a mirror image. After the first or second incident, the players would get that the shimmer was a telltale, but predicting what would happen would still be tricky. (Also, I'd expect the player to make a try of getting some "reflect" for themselves). The biggest grounding of Tucker's Kobolds that are defeated by the existing game, BTW, is the assumption that PCs aren't that great at mobility. The "flaming debris" trick the kobolds used just wouldn't work well in a modern game because PCs can fly, jump large objects in a single bound, teleport, etc. So today's kobolds need to be a lot more sophisticated in terms of messing with mobility and visiblity (don't forget visiblity; do you know how many of PCs tricks are completely hosed when they can't see or can't see what they want to? I'd not realized how many of my Avenger's tricks were tied into sight until she got blinded at 16th level, more or less taking her out of the fight until she could save!). [/QUOTE]

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