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Good vs Evil: a matter of aims or a matter of means?
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<blockquote data-quote="Zappo" data-source="post: 1913969" data-attributes="member: 633"><p>Premise: I think alignment derives from actions, not the other way round. Therefore, in my view, any statement that begins with "a good character will..." is intrinsically flawed (ok, unless it ends with "...take extra damage from unholy weapons" or some other crunch, nitpickers!).</p><p>Since I'm going to use such statements in this post, I need to point that they do not apply to all good characters, but only to a simplistic, alignment-dictated stereotype which is useful in a discussion but which I would seldom use in a game.</p><p> </p><p>I think that first strike without gathering enough information in advance to make sure that there is no other option is evil or neutral at best. I think good characters should use violence only as a last resort or against unredeemable foes such as evil outsiders, undead, and similar creatures that are intrinsically corrupted.</p><p> </p><p>More on the general side, I don't think that the "means versus ends" argument has too much to do with good versus evil. Good characters will pursue good ends, and will strongly favor good means to those ends, feeling in conflict when there are no good means available - but that's fairly obvious, isn't it? They are good, they like to do good, they don't like not being able to do good.</p><p> </p><p>I think that if we're talking about means versus ends, a somewhat more pertinent comparison could be made with law versus chaos. I think that lawful good characters hold the view that there is a destiny or a "greater good" which must be served at all costs; they still will attempt good means first and feel bad when they can't, but they are more likely to justify the means with the ends. When is the justification valid? This is the paladin's dilemma.</p><p> </p><p>Chaotic good characters do not believe in an overall destiny, but only maybe in a personal destiny, and they do not strongly believe in a "greater good". To a chaotic good character, the loss of an individual might be as tragic as the loss of hundreds. I think they are more likely to refuse using questionable means to achieve good ends, and to keep trying the use of good means even when their ends are put in serious danger as a result.</p><p> </p><p>My 2 eurocents.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zappo, post: 1913969, member: 633"] Premise: I think alignment derives from actions, not the other way round. Therefore, in my view, any statement that begins with "a good character will..." is intrinsically flawed (ok, unless it ends with "...take extra damage from unholy weapons" or some other crunch, nitpickers!). Since I'm going to use such statements in this post, I need to point that they do not apply to all good characters, but only to a simplistic, alignment-dictated stereotype which is useful in a discussion but which I would seldom use in a game. I think that first strike without gathering enough information in advance to make sure that there is no other option is evil or neutral at best. I think good characters should use violence only as a last resort or against unredeemable foes such as evil outsiders, undead, and similar creatures that are intrinsically corrupted. More on the general side, I don't think that the "means versus ends" argument has too much to do with good versus evil. Good characters will pursue good ends, and will strongly favor good means to those ends, feeling in conflict when there are no good means available - but that's fairly obvious, isn't it? They are good, they like to do good, they don't like not being able to do good. I think that if we're talking about means versus ends, a somewhat more pertinent comparison could be made with law versus chaos. I think that lawful good characters hold the view that there is a destiny or a "greater good" which must be served at all costs; they still will attempt good means first and feel bad when they can't, but they are more likely to justify the means with the ends. When is the justification valid? This is the paladin's dilemma. Chaotic good characters do not believe in an overall destiny, but only maybe in a personal destiny, and they do not strongly believe in a "greater good". To a chaotic good character, the loss of an individual might be as tragic as the loss of hundreds. I think they are more likely to refuse using questionable means to achieve good ends, and to keep trying the use of good means even when their ends are put in serious danger as a result. My 2 eurocents. [/QUOTE]
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