Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Goodberries and Eberron
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7869778" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Okay, I'm going to start by looking at money as time, not at actual "is this gold or silver" </p><p></p><p>According to your numbers, the unskilled laborer in the PHB needs 75 days of work to afford a sword. </p><p></p><p>According to your historical numbers, an unskilled laborer in England 15th C needed 120 days of work to afford a sword. </p><p></p><p>If we take the Blacksmith as a skilled laborer in the PHB, they need about a week to afford a sword. </p><p></p><p>Looking at your historical numbers, the Blacksmith making the high end of 6 pence would need about 40 days. </p><p></p><p>Soldiers are actually in between this, implied to only earn a single gold a day</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, what does this tell us? It tells us that the skilled laborer is making far more than the unskilled. By a wide margin. </p><p></p><p>But, there are a few extra factors here. </p><p></p><p>1) There are no degrees of skill when it comes to tool proficiency being calculated here. The master goldsmith for the emperor is accounted in the same way as the village man who taught himself to fix the plows. </p><p></p><p>2) Skilled labor covers all proficiencies. It covers the smith and cobbler the same way it covers the jeweler and diplomat. All are "skilled" so they earn more money. </p><p></p><p>3) The wages were directly calculated in the PHB out of room, food, and drink. A "skilled" individual is supposed to be affording nicer clothes, a house and associating with merchants and other tradesmen. Buying a comfortable meal, a comfortable inn, and a mug of ale is a total of 13.4 silver, almost the full 20 silver they are making. Meanwhile, "unskilled" are supposed to be at poor lifestyles, having threadbare clothing, living in a flophouse room, and without a stable community. For poor meal, poor lodging, and a mug of ale, it costs exactly 2 silver. This is actually a problem, since it means that all of their wages are going to keeping themselves above water. </p><p></p><p>4) We have to remember guilds as well. Most skilled workers are likely part of a guild, and the Guild Member background tells us that guild fees are 5 gold a month. So, skilled craftsmen also have to be able to afford that additional cost, as well as any training fees and fees for their tools and work area. </p><p></p><p>5) Scaling is different when you have 1 -> 20 -> 240 for historical money and 1-> 10-> 100 for DnD money. A single gold is actually worth less than a pound in this system, in terms of ratios. A Pound is 240 of the smallest unit, while a gold is only a mere 100. That means in terms of buying power, you would need to divide all the gold prices by about 2.4 to get an accurate ratio. Which changes everything else I talked about up above. </p><p></p><p>I will agree that some of the weapons are priced oddly for what they would have been in RL. A maul as we picture it was a siege weapon meant for bringing down doors, and was just a think log of wood bolted with iron. Most DnD mauls though, are giant slabs of steel, which changes the pricing drastically. I'd say a traditional wooden maul would be closer to a greatclub, which is only 2 sp. </p><p></p><p>And, I think that is a final point of consideration. Most of the weapons that are made of metal, are assumed to be military grade and made of steel. A poor hunter isn't using arrows that cost 5 copper a shot, those arrows have steel heads and were made by a professional bowyer. They are using the arrows they made, possibly with iron heads or stone heads. Which cost a lot less, but the game doesn't cover all of that. The game is vague and only cares about what affects the players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7869778, member: 6801228"] Okay, I'm going to start by looking at money as time, not at actual "is this gold or silver" According to your numbers, the unskilled laborer in the PHB needs 75 days of work to afford a sword. According to your historical numbers, an unskilled laborer in England 15th C needed 120 days of work to afford a sword. If we take the Blacksmith as a skilled laborer in the PHB, they need about a week to afford a sword. Looking at your historical numbers, the Blacksmith making the high end of 6 pence would need about 40 days. Soldiers are actually in between this, implied to only earn a single gold a day So, what does this tell us? It tells us that the skilled laborer is making far more than the unskilled. By a wide margin. But, there are a few extra factors here. 1) There are no degrees of skill when it comes to tool proficiency being calculated here. The master goldsmith for the emperor is accounted in the same way as the village man who taught himself to fix the plows. 2) Skilled labor covers all proficiencies. It covers the smith and cobbler the same way it covers the jeweler and diplomat. All are "skilled" so they earn more money. 3) The wages were directly calculated in the PHB out of room, food, and drink. A "skilled" individual is supposed to be affording nicer clothes, a house and associating with merchants and other tradesmen. Buying a comfortable meal, a comfortable inn, and a mug of ale is a total of 13.4 silver, almost the full 20 silver they are making. Meanwhile, "unskilled" are supposed to be at poor lifestyles, having threadbare clothing, living in a flophouse room, and without a stable community. For poor meal, poor lodging, and a mug of ale, it costs exactly 2 silver. This is actually a problem, since it means that all of their wages are going to keeping themselves above water. 4) We have to remember guilds as well. Most skilled workers are likely part of a guild, and the Guild Member background tells us that guild fees are 5 gold a month. So, skilled craftsmen also have to be able to afford that additional cost, as well as any training fees and fees for their tools and work area. 5) Scaling is different when you have 1 -> 20 -> 240 for historical money and 1-> 10-> 100 for DnD money. A single gold is actually worth less than a pound in this system, in terms of ratios. A Pound is 240 of the smallest unit, while a gold is only a mere 100. That means in terms of buying power, you would need to divide all the gold prices by about 2.4 to get an accurate ratio. Which changes everything else I talked about up above. I will agree that some of the weapons are priced oddly for what they would have been in RL. A maul as we picture it was a siege weapon meant for bringing down doors, and was just a think log of wood bolted with iron. Most DnD mauls though, are giant slabs of steel, which changes the pricing drastically. I'd say a traditional wooden maul would be closer to a greatclub, which is only 2 sp. And, I think that is a final point of consideration. Most of the weapons that are made of metal, are assumed to be military grade and made of steel. A poor hunter isn't using arrows that cost 5 copper a shot, those arrows have steel heads and were made by a professional bowyer. They are using the arrows they made, possibly with iron heads or stone heads. Which cost a lot less, but the game doesn't cover all of that. The game is vague and only cares about what affects the players. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Goodberries and Eberron
Top