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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bad Paper" data-source="post: 3461459" data-attributes="member: 24674">No, actually.  Again, it's a plot twist.  You get "envoys," of a sort, for Lolth, Kostchtchie(sp?), and Pazuzu.  Unless I missed something, I didn't find a whole lot to do with Orcus.  He is integral to the plot, in that the other major players are plotting around him.It's not, really.  It's just a city where you meet the NPC, again and again.  The authors use Sigil because it's an anything-goes city and because you can go anywhere, come back, go somewhere else, come back, etc.  It seems like you have your own idea of plane-hopping, and it shouldn't be hard to adapt this to that.  As I said before, Baur and Kestrel expect you to alter this to your campaign, and they kept things kinda modular for that reason.  The Ysgard side-quest may be more difficult to adapt, though.I can't agree with most of Retreater's critiques.  That is, I can agree, for example, that the plot is convoluted, there are a lot of confusing side-treks, that the cities could use more detail, etc, but I do not agree that these are bad things.If the plot is too convoluted, the party will ignore it, but if the party wants intrigue, then it's right there.  This adventure can be railroaded, but if you are an RP-intensive group, then this will provide you with hours of material.  And since a lot of the RP is with manipulative demons, the party may get a little confused......then again, would you expect any adventure to a place called "the Demonweb" to be anything but confusing?  In this way, the adventure excels above the Harrowing, but that's not fair, because the Harrowing has 15% as many pages.  But in Expedition..., the map keeps changing!  yay for a nonstatic Abyss!The amount of material on the cities is just right.  Any more, and someone like James Heard who didn't want a treatise on Sigil would feel ripped off, and any less, and someone like me who hates to generate cities on the fly would feel hung out to dry.I don't know how to respond to Retreater's "everything you need" comment.  I haven't found any examples of problems.  There are creatures in here that I've never seen, even from Forgotten Realms (I've never read a FR book), and I won't bat an eye at trying to run them.  Feats and spells are explained.  Dark Speech is even in here, from BoVD, and it is explained in detail.  Sure, there are things that overlap with Fiendish Codex I or Frostburn, but you don't need those or any other books.  Heck, I don't think you even need the Spell Compendium.  And if you need to generate an NPC on the fly, well, they do say that you need the DMG, and there you will find your NPCs, plane descriptions, etc.  When they tell you that you need the PH, DMG, and MM, they aren't kidding.I haven't read Expedition to Ravenloft (I am hoping to be killed many times therein), so I can't compare to that one.  I am guessing that Ravenloft feels more cohesive because it doesn't require so much plane-hopping.A couple of problems I have with EttDP:1) While the art and player handouts are gorgeous, you need to either destroy the book or make heavy use of a color photocopier to make use of them. tsk tsk.  Even the Slathered Plates of Butterworth had a separate players' booklet.  There are pics I would love to show to players, sprinkled through the adventure, but, uh, I guess I'll be copying or ignoring them.2) Despite the sidebar advising "how to get the players to cooperate with the Sigil NPC," I am still not entirely sure that they'll take the bait.  I guess that's the big challenge with role-playing.I think this is a rather inspired piece of work, if only because WotC decided to create the seminal v3.5 drow work.  I doubt they will touch drow again until v4, which is fine with me, as I don't even like drow in the first place.</blockquote>

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