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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ipissimus" data-source="post: 4190937" data-attributes="member: 41514">Not having played WoW that much, I can't really compare it. But when I tried it, I did think it was a lot like DnD. Only without any roleplaying at all.Thulcondar, I know where you're coming from. I started playing only a few years after you did. I've done 0E, 1E and 2E but then I went on to 3E, 3.5E and now, it looks like I'll move on to 4E. I think 3E improves on a lot of things 1E and 2E struggled with but 4E, like a few people have said, from my experiences playing and DMing has quite a bit to offer over 1E.1E & 2E were relatively quick and easy to run compared to 3E. On the other hand, 1&2E doesn't have anywhere near the depth of 3E. 2E tried very hard to add more character options and monsters to add the variety that 1E lacked but these options tended to be either weak sauce or overpowered. I'm looking forward to 4E because it looks like I'll get the depth of 3E without the complexity and it also looks like I'll get the simplicity of 1E without the confusing and quirky mechanics (eg is that plus a bonus or a penalty?).The new skills, in particular, give you the depth of 3E's skill system with the simplicity of picking a nonweapon proficiency. One thing I disliked about 1E was the lack of stealth that fighter types were generally able to display. I felt it keenly because I played a Paladin for a decade or two and I was just as good at being sneaky at 20th level as I was at 1st and there was nothing I could do about it. Now, I can grab a skill training feat and be a sneaky Paladin.I share your concern over the battlemats as I prefer not using any minis at all myself. But, having played 4E without it, I can say that IMO it's just as easy to not use minis as it is in 1E, 2E or 3E. Likely, you've got the knack of distances and all that already, so it should be a big deal. Oh, and don't be put of by the 'squares' thing like I was. One 'square' is just 5'by5', so working out ranges and such is easy.Lastly, on the matter of Wizard's hit points, it really doesn't work out the way you're thinking. Yes, a monster can now do 10-15hp with one hit but the difference between 1E and 4E in this is a matter of percentages. As you noted, your Wizard had 20hp and monsters of similar level to you are doing 10-15hp damage. That's 75% of your hp a round. In 1E, a wizard can expect 4hp max, maybe more if you get a lucky Con roll but who assigns a high score to Con to a wizard when three other ability scores get priority? A 1E monster of similar level is doing on average about 8hp max a round, not counting strength. That's 200% of a wizard's starting hp. Your wizard will take 2 hits to go down in 4E, which gives you a margin for error. Rather than no margin for error in 1E. For me that's an improvement, particularly after the pain I experienced playing a 1E Wizard with 1hp.So, powers. I like the new powers system, since it makes everyone useful and fairly balanced against each other. That and my 1st level Wizard wasn't only fragile, he's also useless after one round... and fairly useless during that one round and entirely usless before. It took me a little to get used to it but the trick is that 'normal' attacks in 4E aren't your normal attacks. they're really there for Attacks of Opportunity (or 'AoO', the fancy name they gave 'stabbing people as they run away from you' after 1E). At wills are your normal attacks only more interesting because they give you benefits.I don't know about you, but I found 1E combat dull. It's like playing craps, only you're (intelligently) using an abstract resource called 'hp' rather than real money. The best thing a fighter of any stripe can do is pick their biggest weapon, stand still and roll dice. At higher levels, they do this while the mage and cleric do all the real work. This was mitigated somewhat by 3E but became so complex nobody bothered. Now, 4E feels like it has depth and simplicity at the same time while making everyone in the party useful at all levels.IMO, it's a good change, I hope you give it a chance.</blockquote>

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