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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Grading Encounter Attack Powers
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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4359225" data-attributes="member: 40961"><p>My general objection remains. You can't meaningfully compare powers between classes because a power's worth is directly dependent on its context. Cleave ranks well for Fighters, for example, but would suck if we gave it to Wizards. This in ability to rate powers without context also creates an inability to mix and match at wills in home brew materials based upon ratings assigned in a void.</p><p></p><p>That being said,</p><p></p><p>1. Daunting Light. I'd rate it at least a B. Its the first Cleric Encounter power that lets a Wisdom Cleric boost her own damage versus a single target. Also, granting combat advantage is pretty decent, especially with a Rogue in the party. You can potentially get a LOT of extra damage from this power, if used properly and in conjunction with your allies.</p><p></p><p>2. Armor Piercing Thrust. I'd give it at least a B. You get dex to your attack roll, AND you target reflex defense. And adding [dex] to damage has the potential to be very, very close to adding an additional [W] when wielding a spear, meaning that the total damage is on par for its level. This power is actually best the higher your level, as your dex is likely to grow. This has the potential to be a mainstay until at least epic tier, when your at will powers upgrade and this does not. If this was reprinted as a level 23 encounter power that was in all ways identical except that it did 2 or 3[W] base damage, I'd rate that power highly as well.</p><p></p><p>3. Crushing Blow. I'd take off the minus. It only works with weapons that have big dice, and its a 2[W] power, with a small boost in damage beyond that. A lot of the early fighter powers are like this. There's nothing special about their bonus abilities, but they involve multiplying big numbers by two. The Fighter in my group uses this with a +1 maul. He does 4d6+7 when he hits with Crushing Blow, for an average of 22 damage. Its a workmanlike power. At the least, I wouldn't rate it below Precise Strike.</p><p></p><p>4. Fearsome Smite and Shielding Smite are really, really similar. They do the same thing to different targets. Fearsome Smite is best against elites and solos, and Shielding Smite is best when you have an ally being attacked by multiple foes. When Shielding Smite is appropriate, it has a better effect, but perhaps its less often useful. I'd rank them equal.</p><p></p><p>5. There's no way that Dire Wolverine Strike and Sweeping Blow should have the same rating. This is the problem with considering these things in a vacuum. First, Dire Wolverine Strike has the obvious disadvantage of not giving you an attack bonus, making Sweeping Blow strictly superior if used with the appropriate weapons and a strength of at least 14. But beyond that, Dire Wolverine Strike is a ranger power that requires two one handed weapons, but only actually uses one of them, while Sweeping Blow is compatible with the two handed weapons available to the Fighter, or, if the Fighter is using a one handed weapon, he's getting the benefits of a Shield in addition to the same benefit from the power. In either case, he's better off.</p><p></p><p>6. Fox's Cunning is a great power. It gets your ranged Ranger out of melee reach when he's in trouble, and lets him have a basic attack at an attack roll bonus outside of his regular turn order. An attack outside of turn order is just as good as a 2[W] attack, if not better, because it adds an additional [W] AND all the bonuses that happen per attack, like dex and magic enhancement. Think about it- you use Two Fanged Strike, hit with everything, and get 2[W]+2[dex]+2[magic enhancement]+[wis]. I attack with Fox's Cunning, and on my turn also with Twin Strike, getting me a total of 3[W]+1[dex]+3[magic enhancement]. Net, I've got 1[W]+1[magic] that you haven't, and you've got 1[dex]+1[wis] that I haven't. Its pretty similar damage, and possibly is in my favor. Plus I got to shift.</p><p></p><p>The only restriction is that someone has to attack you in melee. If you're careful, you can avoid letting this happen, but if you're accustomed to circling around and in close a lot of the time in order to benefit from Prime Shot and your choice of Hunter's Quarry targets, this will happen more often than you think.</p><p></p><p>7. I agree with the low rating of Vampiric Embrace, but I think it only makes sense in context of an Infernal Pact Warlock. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Taken in a vacuum, its a really good power. Its also not a bad choice for a NON infernal pact warlock, for example, if you are a Star Pact Warlock who doesn't like Dreadful Word. I think its actually a B or so, then. It will probably get replaced as you advance in level, but its nice to have around for a while.</p><p></p><p>8. I'd give Burning Hands a B. Every Wizard should have at least one Close spell. Also, "Fire Wizard" is a very viable build, and this fits smoothly into it. It also has the biggest area of effect of any level 1 encounter Wizard power.</p><p></p><p>9. Ray of Enfeeblement is nice against Elites and Solos, which aren't a Wizard's traditional foes. This gives it some extra value in my opinion. I'd at least change the C- to a C+.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4359225, member: 40961"] My general objection remains. You can't meaningfully compare powers between classes because a power's worth is directly dependent on its context. Cleave ranks well for Fighters, for example, but would suck if we gave it to Wizards. This in ability to rate powers without context also creates an inability to mix and match at wills in home brew materials based upon ratings assigned in a void. That being said, 1. Daunting Light. I'd rate it at least a B. Its the first Cleric Encounter power that lets a Wisdom Cleric boost her own damage versus a single target. Also, granting combat advantage is pretty decent, especially with a Rogue in the party. You can potentially get a LOT of extra damage from this power, if used properly and in conjunction with your allies. 2. Armor Piercing Thrust. I'd give it at least a B. You get dex to your attack roll, AND you target reflex defense. And adding [dex] to damage has the potential to be very, very close to adding an additional [W] when wielding a spear, meaning that the total damage is on par for its level. This power is actually best the higher your level, as your dex is likely to grow. This has the potential to be a mainstay until at least epic tier, when your at will powers upgrade and this does not. If this was reprinted as a level 23 encounter power that was in all ways identical except that it did 2 or 3[W] base damage, I'd rate that power highly as well. 3. Crushing Blow. I'd take off the minus. It only works with weapons that have big dice, and its a 2[W] power, with a small boost in damage beyond that. A lot of the early fighter powers are like this. There's nothing special about their bonus abilities, but they involve multiplying big numbers by two. The Fighter in my group uses this with a +1 maul. He does 4d6+7 when he hits with Crushing Blow, for an average of 22 damage. Its a workmanlike power. At the least, I wouldn't rate it below Precise Strike. 4. Fearsome Smite and Shielding Smite are really, really similar. They do the same thing to different targets. Fearsome Smite is best against elites and solos, and Shielding Smite is best when you have an ally being attacked by multiple foes. When Shielding Smite is appropriate, it has a better effect, but perhaps its less often useful. I'd rank them equal. 5. There's no way that Dire Wolverine Strike and Sweeping Blow should have the same rating. This is the problem with considering these things in a vacuum. First, Dire Wolverine Strike has the obvious disadvantage of not giving you an attack bonus, making Sweeping Blow strictly superior if used with the appropriate weapons and a strength of at least 14. But beyond that, Dire Wolverine Strike is a ranger power that requires two one handed weapons, but only actually uses one of them, while Sweeping Blow is compatible with the two handed weapons available to the Fighter, or, if the Fighter is using a one handed weapon, he's getting the benefits of a Shield in addition to the same benefit from the power. In either case, he's better off. 6. Fox's Cunning is a great power. It gets your ranged Ranger out of melee reach when he's in trouble, and lets him have a basic attack at an attack roll bonus outside of his regular turn order. An attack outside of turn order is just as good as a 2[W] attack, if not better, because it adds an additional [W] AND all the bonuses that happen per attack, like dex and magic enhancement. Think about it- you use Two Fanged Strike, hit with everything, and get 2[W]+2[dex]+2[magic enhancement]+[wis]. I attack with Fox's Cunning, and on my turn also with Twin Strike, getting me a total of 3[W]+1[dex]+3[magic enhancement]. Net, I've got 1[W]+1[magic] that you haven't, and you've got 1[dex]+1[wis] that I haven't. Its pretty similar damage, and possibly is in my favor. Plus I got to shift. The only restriction is that someone has to attack you in melee. If you're careful, you can avoid letting this happen, but if you're accustomed to circling around and in close a lot of the time in order to benefit from Prime Shot and your choice of Hunter's Quarry targets, this will happen more often than you think. 7. I agree with the low rating of Vampiric Embrace, but I think it only makes sense in context of an Infernal Pact Warlock. :p Taken in a vacuum, its a really good power. Its also not a bad choice for a NON infernal pact warlock, for example, if you are a Star Pact Warlock who doesn't like Dreadful Word. I think its actually a B or so, then. It will probably get replaced as you advance in level, but its nice to have around for a while. 8. I'd give Burning Hands a B. Every Wizard should have at least one Close spell. Also, "Fire Wizard" is a very viable build, and this fits smoothly into it. It also has the biggest area of effect of any level 1 encounter Wizard power. 9. Ray of Enfeeblement is nice against Elites and Solos, which aren't a Wizard's traditional foes. This gives it some extra value in my opinion. I'd at least change the C- to a C+. [/QUOTE]
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