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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4360433" data-attributes="member: 43019">You can if you use some other attack to set it up, where that can be an area effect, zone, conjuration, tide of iron off of something, or whatever. And the amount you shift with it is on par or greater than Tumble.Oh totally - I'm just pointing out that it's solid due to targetting Will for solid damage before the special effect, and that special effect is actually quite versatile and effective. Some soldier's guarding a doorway and an artillery is bombing you past it? Etc. If it didn't target Will, of course, it would rate lower.The point is that I'm not going to score it as effectively better than a level 1 power that it's worse than <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> You can certainly have both if you don't have party members to flank with often... but it just makes it an adequate option rather than exceptional.Depends on if they use the standard array and if they are a race with a Str bonus. I was assuming point buy, but if you use a standard array and aren't a Str race, then you could make the example 14th. Or just make it +3 and it would be slightly under 3W instead of slightly over.Well, yes, that is one reason why I'm arguing for the vs. Will in a couple powers as being quite strong. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="keterys, post: 4360433, member: 43019"] You can if you use some other attack to set it up, where that can be an area effect, zone, conjuration, tide of iron off of something, or whatever. And the amount you shift with it is on par or greater than Tumble. Oh totally - I'm just pointing out that it's solid due to targetting Will for solid damage before the special effect, and that special effect is actually quite versatile and effective. Some soldier's guarding a doorway and an artillery is bombing you past it? Etc. If it didn't target Will, of course, it would rate lower. The point is that I'm not going to score it as effectively better than a level 1 power that it's worse than :) You can certainly have both if you don't have party members to flank with often... but it just makes it an adequate option rather than exceptional. Depends on if they use the standard array and if they are a race with a Str bonus. I was assuming point buy, but if you use a standard array and aren't a Str race, then you could make the example 14th. Or just make it +3 and it would be slightly under 3W instead of slightly over. Well, yes, that is one reason why I'm arguing for the vs. Will in a couple powers as being quite strong. :) [/QUOTE]

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