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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Izerath" data-source="post: 2898485" data-attributes="member: 6743">On second thoughtWe were talking about Improved Grab because it allows a free grapple attack.....I still stand on what I said earlier about that Special Attack.However, as I thought about this a bit more - Jhulae makes sense. The action is "I want to dismount the rider" not "I want to jump on the horse, grapple the rider then pull him from his horse."We should really consider the OUTCOME of the action to find the appropriate rule instead of beginning with the player's description and working towards the rule. It's a fine art yes, but that's the first question every DM unconsciously (or consciously) asks himself when behind the screen.If I were judging this (and now here comes the groan from my player who has the grappling monk) I would agree that the attack is a trip attack. If the player really leapt at the rider, it's a move action - make a Jump or Ride to get on the horse). Then he makes his trip attack to dismount the rider.  If he misses, the rider gets a trip attack against the attacker. If the rider succeeds, the attacker is thrown from the horse. Failure means both attacker and grappler are mounted on the back of the horse. This latter result may collide with the attacker/defender in same square rule, but two people ride horses all the time - logistically so can enemies (see DMG p29 under Mixing it Up, first paragraph). In this case I would ignore that rule because it makes "cinematic sense." Eventually someone will fail a ride check when they are attacked (and hit) or they will get thrown from the horse by their opponent. Also the mount can attack within its own space, and thus can attack a rider with a bite, but not hooves. Now, if someone was thrown from the horse, it could use hooves or bite.....oh and only a warhorse gets a bite attack.....</blockquote>

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