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<blockquote data-quote="uzagi_akimbo" data-source="post: 1537873" data-attributes="member: 15945">How do you know ? Because &quot;concealment&quot; (as conferred by 'Blur' ) offers a 20% chance of the attack not _striking_ you (check p.152 PHB). Once a grapple has been established by striking the target (were the &quot;blur&quot; takes effect, once ! ), it is a simple contest to _maintain_ the established contact, hence no striking, hence no _miss_ chance from 'blur'. Please take into account that 'blur' is a purely visual trick&nbsp; - once touch/physical contact ist established, visual tricks are less helpful. Just check the rules for concealment &quot;If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to _avoid_being_struck_. &quot; In a grapple, there is no further attack roll after the initial touch attack, just an opposed check of grappling ability, which happens instead of an attack.&nbsp; _If_ it was an attack , the rules would explicitly read &quot; a grapple check is an attack determined etc etc&quot;, .As it is stated on page 152 PHB - &quot;concealment does not always apply&quot;. If 'Blindsight', 'Tremorsense', 'Darkvision' or similar means can foil it, I&nbsp; daresay so will full body contact. And that is what one has, once the initial touch-attack (subject to 'blur') hits and grappling begins. There is no &quot;striking&quot; anymore.And honestly, trying to bend the rules so out of obvious common sensical shape as to claim an optical trick might apply when one is wrestling WWF style and getting one's arm yanked out by one's opponent, smacks of nitpicking and severely abusing the rules. Please, don't tell me the dragon's chewing on a hapless chap (held fast in his maw by a grapple check ) is fooled for one moment by some fancy graphic mischief.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="uzagi_akimbo, post: 1537873, member: 15945"] How do you know ? Because "concealment" (as conferred by 'Blur' ) offers a 20% chance of the attack not _striking_ you (check p.152 PHB). Once a grapple has been established by striking the target (were the "blur" takes effect, once ! ), it is a simple contest to _maintain_ the established contact, hence no striking, hence no _miss_ chance from 'blur'. Please take into account that 'blur' is a purely visual trick - once touch/physical contact ist established, visual tricks are less helpful. Just check the rules for concealment "If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to _avoid_being_struck_. " In a grapple, there is no further attack roll after the initial touch attack, just an opposed check of grappling ability, which happens instead of an attack. _If_ it was an attack , the rules would explicitly read " a grapple check is an attack determined etc etc", . As it is stated on page 152 PHB - "concealment does not always apply". If 'Blindsight', 'Tremorsense', 'Darkvision' or similar means can foil it, I daresay so will full body contact. And that is what one has, once the initial touch-attack (subject to 'blur') hits and grappling begins. There is no "striking" anymore. And honestly, trying to bend the rules so out of obvious common sensical shape as to claim an optical trick might apply when one is wrestling WWF style and getting one's arm yanked out by one's opponent, smacks of nitpicking and severely abusing the rules. Please, don't tell me the dragon's chewing on a hapless chap (held fast in his maw by a grapple check ) is fooled for one moment by some fancy graphic mischief. [/QUOTE]

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