Grapple attacks bypass DR?

[Stalker0]

Here's the situation. Let's say for the sake of argument a dragon is grappling a high level monk (he has DR /magic).

A dragon's attacks normally count as magic weapons for the purpose of bypass DR. However, if a dragon is doing damage through the use of grapple checks, and not actual attacks, does the DR still get negated?

 

[mvincent]

Here's the situation. Let's say for the sake of argument a dragon is grappling a high level monk (he has DR /magic).

A dragon's attacks normally count as magic weapons for the purpose of bypass DR. However, if a dragon is doing damage through the use of grapple checks, and not actual attacks, does the DR still get negated?

That is how I would rule.

The rules only say:
"Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

 

[Dracorat]

A grapple check by itself isn't a form of damage, but if you are making grapple checks in order to use the grapple ability "Attack with a light weapon" then you are making an attack on a successful check.

 

[Infiniti2000]

A grapple check by itself isn't a form of damage, but if you are making grapple checks in order to use the grapple ability "Attack with a light weapon" then you are making an attack on a successful check.

If you are using "Attack your opponent" then you are not using opposed grapple checks.

But, I agree in that you need to "Attack your opponent" with a natural weapon in order to benefit from the DR/Magic, or you need to have Improved Grab which "deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold."

 

[mvincent]

If you are using "Attack your opponent" then you are not using opposed grapple checks.

But, I agree in that you need to "Attack your opponent" with a natural weapon in order to benefit from the DR/Magic, or you need to have Improved Grab which "deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold."

I would tend to agree (and that certainly seems reasonable), but it seems a bit more complex, and possibly a bit inconsistent. If the Sage were to rule on this, he could go either way but with greater odds towards your interpretation. If they were going to re-write this for 4.0, I'm guessing they might go with the simpler option.

 

[Infiniti2000]

My personal preference for a redesign would be to classify 'unarmed attacks' as natural weapons to a certain extent--at least as far as DR is concerned. This also helps the high-level grappling monk perhaps.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you are using "Attack your opponent" then you are not using opposed grapple checks.

But, I agree in that you need to "Attack your opponent" with a natural weapon in order to benefit from the DR/Magic, or you need to have Improved Grab which "deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold."

The Damage Opponent option (in the absence of Improved Grab) deals damage equivalent to your unarmed strike.

So if your unarmed strike bypasses DR X/Magic, presumably, so too should Damage Opponent.

For a monk, that's no problem - Ki Strike makes the unarmed strike work fine.

For a dragon... well, it depends on whether or not the unarmed strike is a natural weapon...

-Hyp.