Grapple & Earth Glide

[Salthorae]

There's precedent for it in literature, of coure. Relg the Ulgo takes Silk with him on an Earth Glide in The Belgariad, for example.

True, but this is a question of how D&D 3.x rules work in relation to the characters in the game.

I would say that RAW would not allow it as it requires an Extra(read "out of the...")ordinary ability which only a few creatuers from the Plane of Earth or spellcasters have/can get.

Of course every DM is free to implement Rule 0 based on whatever precedents they see fit, such as fantasy literature written well before D&D 3.x and with no association with the game/rules set. (1982-1984 for The Belgariad where Relg appears and 1988 for The Grey Mouser in The Knight and Knave of Swords)

I would still argue that even if the Earth Glide extraordinary ability is based on the instances from The Belgariad, that it is different because the d20 system is it's own set of rules designed for game balance, and I believe that allowing a grappling Earth Elemental to drag a character/NPC down into the ground via Earth Glide (where they probably can't breath...) is a little over powered IMO.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Salthorae, given that an Earth Elemental can Earth Glide while in a grapple... what should the results be?

 

[Nail]

I think the relevant peice here is that although the Earth Elemental can 'glide, the creature it grappled can't. Grappling does not transfer the special abilities of one creature to another.

If I can't Earth Glide, why should I be able to when grappled?

 

[Nail]

I am sure ghosttouch armor would do the trick, no?

Nope.

The elemental is not incorporeal while earth gliding.

 

[Salthorae]

For a concise statement of what I'm trying to say, see Nail's post above. Thanks, concise speech has never been my forte.

Salthorae, given that an Earth Elemental can Earth Glide while in a grapple... what should the results be?

I was about to agree with someone who posted above that it should probably just grant a Slam attack, but then I remembered that Earth Glide is just a form of movement...

Earth Elemental, Small
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Earth Elemental, Medium
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Earth Elemental, Large
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)

And...

Move: You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.

So since the Elemental (size Small to Large) moves at most 10' and Size Huge Earth Elementals move only 15' on a successful grapple check I would say an inital Slam attack (As a 10-15' charge, which is allowed for by Charge, see below. Only downward into the ground),

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

followed on subsequent rounds by crushing damage per the Grapple rules.


I would also say though that there should be some minus' to the Elemental's Grapple check at this point, because it would be using only it's hands to keep ahold of the grappled creature and is itself under ground. Maybe decrease the Elemental's size bonus to the grapple by one step? SO Huge to Large, Large to Medium, etc...

Also in order to make another slam attack the Elemental would have to make yet another successful grapple check to move up one round and then grapple again on Rd 2 to move down to slam the grappled creature. He's probably at this point provoking Readied action attacks as it rises up to try and slam the grappled creature again...

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

So.. using Core Grapple rules:

Round 1: Large Earth Elemental grapples, with a +17 check...
Round 2: Given a successfull Grapple check as a standard action, elemental Earth Glides down, slamming the PC into the ground for 2D8+8 damage. PC is prone and pinned to the ground {-8 to AC from other opponents, prone + pinned penalties}
Future rounds:
- PC can attempt the break the pin, and then attempt to break the grapple and free themselves.
- Elemental can deal damage with a successfull grapple check as a standard action and is protected from most attacks by being mostly underground

End result: Most PC's vs Large elemental will be KO'd after a short, not very fun encounter.

By giving the pinned PC a +8 to the grapple checks {+4 stability and +4 DM Friend}, its more likely this wouldn't turn into an insta-win strategy.. but still a very hazardous one for the PC, and still not very fun.

?

 

[Mistwell]

I think by RAW the Earth Elemental should be able to move and drag its opponent into the ground. Since there is nothing to stop a Kraken from grappling a sailer and dragging him off to death in the briny deep... or the gargoyle stepping off a balcony into the air...

Of course, this is a significant power-up, so I would counter the increase in CR by forcing a grapple check when moving through normally impassable substances, if the elemental loses this check the opponent would get 'dropped' outside of the ground. The opponent would get a bonus to this check of at least +4 {stable}, probably a +8... but that HR territory.
{Being a 'Poster C' again... oh well }

Wow you just made the Earth Dreamer prestige class from Races of Stone super powerful (since they get that ability at fifth level). Polymorph or alter shape into a big bruiser with bonuses to grapple, grapple every tough opponent and drag them into the ground.