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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kjenks" data-source="post: 2071922" data-attributes="member: 12892">I see your logic, and I agree that the rules need clarification. There are conflicts and unclear sections within the rules. The PH says a grapple check is like a melee attack roll. It does show that grapple checks have a different size modifier than other melee attacks, but it doesn't list any other differences. Melee attacks have some characteristics to them that they definitely share with grapple checks, including BAB, Str modifier, a size modifier. Melee attacks have other characteristics that they MIGHT share with grapple check, like attack bonuses from morale (Bless, Bard song), luck (Prayer), circumstance (prone attacker, charging, flanking, higher ground) and attack penalties from fear effects and other conditions (shaken, frightened, dazzled, energy drained, etc.) and from using feats (Power Attack, Rapid Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise, etc.). Melee attacks also have auto-success (and threaten a critical) on a natural 20, auto-fail on a natural 1.So what should we do with all that? In the confusion generated by the schizophrenic FAQ and in the absense of any other core rules, should we ignore these kind of characteristics of melee attacks and pretend that line in the PH doesn't exist? ("A grapple check is like a melee attack roll.") Or should we try to treat grapple checks like melee attacks as much as possible?There isn't much we can do in the present situation other than try to use the rules as written, including the PH, the old 3e FAQ, the new 3.5e FAQ, and the Rules of the Game articles, to make the best decision we can.So I wouldn't complain about a DM making a different decision, but until we get something clearer, I'll continue to use the written rules I mentioned above, rather than trying to make up my own rules.</blockquote>

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