Grapple, Swallow whole, & taking -20 to grapple check question (My players stay out)

[Ao the Overkitty]

If something has multiple bite attacks and successfully does damage and then sucessfully grapples on its first attack, can it use its next attack (in a full attack action) to make another grapple check to swallow whole? Or does it have to wait til the next round to try and swallow whole and have its actions finished for this round, despite having more attacks available (can't bite with it's mouth full?)

Also, when can said monster decide to take -20 on his grapple check (in order to not be considered grappled itself)? Can he start with the -20, or does he have to wait till the next round to begin that?

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"Dear, there is a Mr. Grim here about the Reaping?"

The Overkitty has Spoken! All Hail the Cat Lord!
Ao the Overkitty

 

[IceBear]

Here's a good source of info for grappling questions (and don't we all have them? )

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/grappling.html

IceBear

 

[BlackBart]

Problem is that on point 5, regarding monsters, Sean is mistaken if you consider that in MMII the description for Improved Grab was tweaked a bit(for clarity, I believe, as the MM entry is just a bit awkward). Improved Grab does not make the attacker not considered grappled. The only way to avoid this condition is to take a -20 to the grapple check (which can be done on the first check, and/or subsequent rounds, and can be done by any creature, Improved Grab or not).

Usually monsters don't have iterative attacks, multiple yes, but iterative no. It's not an impossibility, but unusual to have multiple bite attacks. Let's assume the subject creature does though. In this case the creature should be free to use its additional iterative attacks (at -5 to the previous attack, as it is an iterative attack), at its leisure, and in whatever way makes sense. If all it takes to swallow whole is a successful grapple check after getting a hold, there should be no reason the creature cannot use its next attack to do so.

 

[IceBear]

Stupid double post

 

[IceBear]

You're probably right. I think the date on that document could be from before the MMII was released so maybe that's why Sean has it wrong. I only skimmed that document, but I was under the impression that the monster had to choose to take the -20 penalty to be considered not grappled or to grapple normally and be considered grappled.

IceBear

 

[Brekki]

If something has multiple bite attacks and successfully does damage and then sucessfully grapples on its first attack, can it use its next attack (in a full attack action) to make another grapple check to swallow whole? Or does it have to wait til the next round to try and swallow whole and have its actions finished for this round, despite having more attacks available (can't bite with it's mouth full?)

Yes it can, if it has a BaB of +6 or higher. Then it can use it's itterative BaB for the grapple check that is needed for the swallow whole.

Also, when can said monster decide to take -20 on his grapple check (in order to not be considered grappled itself)? Can he start with the -20, or does he have to wait till the next round to begin that?

Monsters with Improved Grab do not need to take -20 on the first free grapple check that starts the grapple. They can just try to grapple normally and have to decide AFTER THAT whether they want to hold the opponent with one appendix or with the whole body. This also results in being grappled themselves or not and the victims grapple DC to get out.

 

[shilsen]

They can just try to grapple normally and have to decide AFTER THAT whether they want to hold the opponent with one appendix or with the whole body.

One appendage, that is. If I run into a creature that can hold me in one appendix I'm running away

 

[Brekki]

One appendage, that is. If I run into a creature that can hold me in one appendix I'm running away

That is exactly the nastyness of these creatures. Most are large or huge, and a lot stronger as the characters, so have a +5 to +25 relative to the characters for the first grapple check. After that the characters have "lost" at least a standard action to get free, and even with a -20 some creatures still have a 50% chance to hold you.

They do this all with the FREE grapple check from Improved Grapple ... very nice

 

[Ao the Overkitty]

Very Nice, and Very Nasty

That is exactly the nastyness of these creatures. Most are large or huge, and a lot stronger as the characters, so have a +5 to +25 relative to the characters for the first grapple check. After that the characters have "lost" at least a standard action to get free, and even with a -20 some creatures still have a 50% chance to hold you.

They do this all with the FREE grapple check from Improved Grapple ... very nice

There is a certain beauty to them

It just seems like they're a bit too nasty if they can grapple and swallow on the same round. I do tend to go easy on my players, though.

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"A Spell? Ooh. I like the Dark Arts!" -Willow

The Overkitty has Spoken! All Hail the Cat Lord!
Ao the Overkitty