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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Grappler build, looking for Tier 3 leveling advice
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<blockquote data-quote="Zene" data-source="post: 7119997" data-attributes="member: 6863496"><p>I appreciate the input, but I've gotta disagree with most of your points.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>According to Jeremy Crawford/Sage Advice, "An Arcane Trickster can retrain their 1st-level spell from any school. (An unintended omission.)" See <a href="http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/07/why-eldritch-knight-can-retrain-their-3rd-level-spell-in-any-school-but-arcane-trickster-still-cannot/" target="_blank">http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/07/why-eldritch-knight-can-retrain-their-3rd-level-spell-in-any-school-but-arcane-trickster-still-cannot/</a></p><p></p><p>I realize Sage Advice is not an official rules source for AL, but that retraining is clearly RAI, and I've yet to play with a DM that doesn't accept the ruling at that link.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair enough, but it's pretty situational where that all lines up to be both possible and useful. I have never yet run with a druid or ranger that creates a death zone --although that will be an amazing strategy when it finally happens. I do, though, have boots of flying. So if there's open sky above me, the ability to drag at full speed straight up gets me an extra 2d6 of damage with my normal movement, or up to an extra 8d6 of damage if I'm using my action, bonus action, and action surge to dash. To get that damage, I either need to drop them (releasing the grapple), or drop with them (taking the same amount of damage myself, which if I'm not raging I'm not resistant to). It's fun, but it's hardly a no-brainer that that's the best move.... and we'd need to be outdoors, the tradeoffs would have to be worth it, I'd need to be maintaining concentration, I'd need to give up an action (or an action surge) to cast Enlarge, and the grapple-ee would need to be Small. I can't remember the last time I fought a small creature. The last dozen or so fights I've had with this character were dragons, giants, and a few medium-sized humanoids.</p><p></p><p>In the rare situation that it does make sense to do, I won't hesitate to use Enlarge. It's just not anywhere near a good idea for the majority of fights when compared to rage. </p><p></p><p>And polymorph would only change me into a beast. Yes a few beasts can grapple, but if we're playing that game you don't actually need the grappler to do it, any character can (and I could enlarge them, too). The game statistics are replaced by the beast, so things like action surge, expertise in grappling, etc. are useless.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do have athlete, and winged boots, which are lots of fun. I use most of these tactics already (except as discussed the action surge to cast Enlarge). Not sure action surge alone is worth a 2-level investment. You really don't think the battlemaster maneuvers add anything? I'd figure the ability to add a bit of nova on a crit, or trip on an attack instead of using a shove action, or riposte for off-turn sneak attack damage, would all be (potentially) better than an extra rogue level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zene, post: 7119997, member: 6863496"] I appreciate the input, but I've gotta disagree with most of your points. According to Jeremy Crawford/Sage Advice, "An Arcane Trickster can retrain their 1st-level spell from any school. (An unintended omission.)" See [URL]http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/07/why-eldritch-knight-can-retrain-their-3rd-level-spell-in-any-school-but-arcane-trickster-still-cannot/[/URL] I realize Sage Advice is not an official rules source for AL, but that retraining is clearly RAI, and I've yet to play with a DM that doesn't accept the ruling at that link. Fair enough, but it's pretty situational where that all lines up to be both possible and useful. I have never yet run with a druid or ranger that creates a death zone --although that will be an amazing strategy when it finally happens. I do, though, have boots of flying. So if there's open sky above me, the ability to drag at full speed straight up gets me an extra 2d6 of damage with my normal movement, or up to an extra 8d6 of damage if I'm using my action, bonus action, and action surge to dash. To get that damage, I either need to drop them (releasing the grapple), or drop with them (taking the same amount of damage myself, which if I'm not raging I'm not resistant to). It's fun, but it's hardly a no-brainer that that's the best move.... and we'd need to be outdoors, the tradeoffs would have to be worth it, I'd need to be maintaining concentration, I'd need to give up an action (or an action surge) to cast Enlarge, and the grapple-ee would need to be Small. I can't remember the last time I fought a small creature. The last dozen or so fights I've had with this character were dragons, giants, and a few medium-sized humanoids. In the rare situation that it does make sense to do, I won't hesitate to use Enlarge. It's just not anywhere near a good idea for the majority of fights when compared to rage. And polymorph would only change me into a beast. Yes a few beasts can grapple, but if we're playing that game you don't actually need the grappler to do it, any character can (and I could enlarge them, too). The game statistics are replaced by the beast, so things like action surge, expertise in grappling, etc. are useless. I do have athlete, and winged boots, which are lots of fun. I use most of these tactics already (except as discussed the action surge to cast Enlarge). Not sure action surge alone is worth a 2-level investment. You really don't think the battlemaster maneuvers add anything? I'd figure the ability to add a bit of nova on a crit, or trip on an attack instead of using a shove action, or riposte for off-turn sneak attack damage, would all be (potentially) better than an extra rogue level. [/QUOTE]
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