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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Prism" data-source="post: 1759540" data-attributes="member: 9501">Its one of the most confusing aspects of combat I would say.If said octopus attacks and grapples on the first of its 8 attacks, unless it takes the -20 to grapple it suddenly switches into grapple mode which means it loses its other 7 attacks (plus beak) as the grapple rules only allow for additional attacks through a high attack bonus and iterative attacksHowever, if the octopus fails to grapple on its first 7 attacks (probably partly because its taking -20) then it succeeds on the 8th attack it doesn't really lose out. Does it suddenly switch to grapple mode and get another attack because of its +6/+1 BAB - I have no idea!It seems ridiculous that an octopus is at an advantage when it doesn't actually grapple until after all of its attacksThe problem is that the PHB rules do not discuss monster attacks at all (being the PHB I suppose they shouldn't) and so all the focus is on getting multiple attacks through BAB. It mentions that you can't attack with two weapons but doesn't explain why an octopus can't use its beak in a grapple - unless its taking the -20 of courseThe MM sheds no further light on the matterWe play it that creatures keep their normal attack routines in whilst in a grapple. So an octopus still gets 9 attacks, a bear still gets 3 etc. Otherwise the octopus is considerably worse of when grappling than when not - which seems a bit silly. It also means that you don't have to switch from monster attack routine to BAB iterative attacks midway through the round which there are no guidelines on really. All the rules pretty much assume that you either grapple in a round or attack and don't really deal with bothThis last bit is all house rule stuff of course</blockquote>

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