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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Grappling Animals.
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<blockquote data-quote="Waldo" data-source="post: 1028523" data-attributes="member: 13316"><p>Since you have claw, claw, bite. I'll assume your druid is a brown or polar bear. As such, your druid has Improved Grab, since Wild Shape functions as polymorph and polymorph grants Extraordinary attacks. If your Druid uses Improved Grab, then you could deal two grapple checks at +7/+2, since your BAB is +7, each dealing claw damage, since the claw is the attack that initiated the Improved Grab.</p><p></p><p>You could instead replace a grapple check with a natural weapon attack at -4, if you feel that an attack against AC is easier to win than a grapple. According to the natural attacks entry, secondary natural attacks always retain their negatives, even if used as a single attack. Therefore, uou could attack with your claw twice with a BAB +7 and the progression would be +7/+2. You could replace any claw attack with a bite attack at an additional -5, due to the secondary attack penalty. I could see DMs arguing that at least one attack needs to be a claw, but I would probably let it slide.</p><p></p><p>If you were an animal that didn't have Improved Grab, like a black bear, then your grapple checks would do subdual damage appropriate to creature size, and again 2 attacks at +7/+2. Or you could attack with a natural weapon twice to do natural weapon damage at a -4 to hit, again at +7/+2 (+3/-2 after the -4).</p><p></p><p>The wierd part about this, is that a Druid, or any animal, with very high BAB will get MORE attacks while grappling than when attacking normally, since the rules say higher BAB do not give extra natural attacks during a full attack, but the grappling rules clearly states that you can attack as many times as your BAB allows. A brown bear with a BAB +16 would get +16/11/6/1, more than it's normal three natural attacks. An advanced giant never gets more slams, but does get more melee attacks as it advances. If this bothers you, you could say the maximum number of grapple attacks is set to the animal's full number of normal attacks. Personally, I think animals make ferocious and effective grapplers and wouldn't worry about it.</p><p></p><p>Hope that helps.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Waldo, post: 1028523, member: 13316"] Since you have claw, claw, bite. I'll assume your druid is a brown or polar bear. As such, your druid has Improved Grab, since Wild Shape functions as polymorph and polymorph grants Extraordinary attacks. If your Druid uses Improved Grab, then you could deal two grapple checks at +7/+2, since your BAB is +7, each dealing claw damage, since the claw is the attack that initiated the Improved Grab. You could instead replace a grapple check with a natural weapon attack at -4, if you feel that an attack against AC is easier to win than a grapple. According to the natural attacks entry, secondary natural attacks always retain their negatives, even if used as a single attack. Therefore, uou could attack with your claw twice with a BAB +7 and the progression would be +7/+2. You could replace any claw attack with a bite attack at an additional -5, due to the secondary attack penalty. I could see DMs arguing that at least one attack needs to be a claw, but I would probably let it slide. If you were an animal that didn't have Improved Grab, like a black bear, then your grapple checks would do subdual damage appropriate to creature size, and again 2 attacks at +7/+2. Or you could attack with a natural weapon twice to do natural weapon damage at a -4 to hit, again at +7/+2 (+3/-2 after the -4). The wierd part about this, is that a Druid, or any animal, with very high BAB will get MORE attacks while grappling than when attacking normally, since the rules say higher BAB do not give extra natural attacks during a full attack, but the grappling rules clearly states that you can attack as many times as your BAB allows. A brown bear with a BAB +16 would get +16/11/6/1, more than it's normal three natural attacks. An advanced giant never gets more slams, but does get more melee attacks as it advances. If this bothers you, you could say the maximum number of grapple attacks is set to the animal's full number of normal attacks. Personally, I think animals make ferocious and effective grapplers and wouldn't worry about it. Hope that helps. [/QUOTE]
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