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Grappling For Beginners: How To Strike, Hold & Throw
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<blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 3018732" data-attributes="member: 994"><p>Alright, just got back from a couple days of vacation and downloaded the updated version. Morrus, these are <strong><em>very</em></strong> streamlined and easy to use! Thank you! (I sincerely hope my players will approve of them so we can ditch the Core rules for all of the special maneuvers.)</p><p></p><p>A few questions though:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Improved Bullrush talks about moving into the defender's space, however there's no similar section in the Hold attack section. If the attacker's Hold is successful do both combatants remain in their original spaces? I'm getting a picture of Sumo wrestlers here, if so. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If not, who moves? And if it's the attacker moving into the defender's space, they could induce a movement-related AoO from nearby foes, which is different than "provoking an AoO from anyone other than your target simply by attempting an unarmed attack" as described at the top of page 3. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Either way, you list the penalties applied for someone who is held when being attacked by opponents other than the one grappling them, but are not explicit about any possibility of randomly hitting one of the other combatants either in melee or with ranged weapons. The PHB describes the latter while other systems (namely Iron Heroes) describe the former. Just looking for a clarification here, really.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Depends on the first answer above, but if opponents share a space when one is holding the other, and the individual being held breaks free (of all holds, if multiple), do either get any kind of immediate movement so they aren't sharing a space any longer? Or are they just forced apart when one of their initiatives comes up?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If someone is successfully held, you describe their -4 to AC to other opponents and delineate their options for attacking with a light weapon or natural attack at a -4 penalty, or unarmed strikes without penalty. They also can't use two weapons. However, it's not clear to me whether they can use those options only against the person(s) holding them, or whether they could choose to attack foes outside the grapple but within range. It's very cinematic to have the hero being held in a choke hold by one opponent and being unable to shake him loose before another foe comes up to join the fun; the hero kicks the new guy away before throwing the holder off of him. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></li> </ul><p></p><p>I admit, it's mentally a bit difficult for me to "turn off" the Core rules and the IH rules we've been using more recently, but running through a few sample combats led me to these questions above. Sorry if I've missed the answers to some/all of my questions if they're already addressed in your text (though I'd still appreciate knowing exactly where I missed them).</p><p></p><p>I think a handful of quick examples would go a long way to pointing out how simple this system is. Using Archie, Biff & Clyde at the end of each manuever section would go pretty quick, and the fact that all the paragraphs would be really short is another testament to how easy these rules are to use. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Thanks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DrSpunj, post: 3018732, member: 994"] Alright, just got back from a couple days of vacation and downloaded the updated version. Morrus, these are [b][i]very[/i][/b] streamlined and easy to use! Thank you! (I sincerely hope my players will approve of them so we can ditch the Core rules for all of the special maneuvers.) A few questions though: [list] [*]Improved Bullrush talks about moving into the defender's space, however there's no similar section in the Hold attack section. If the attacker's Hold is successful do both combatants remain in their original spaces? I'm getting a picture of Sumo wrestlers here, if so. :p [*]If not, who moves? And if it's the attacker moving into the defender's space, they could induce a movement-related AoO from nearby foes, which is different than "provoking an AoO from anyone other than your target simply by attempting an unarmed attack" as described at the top of page 3. [*]Either way, you list the penalties applied for someone who is held when being attacked by opponents other than the one grappling them, but are not explicit about any possibility of randomly hitting one of the other combatants either in melee or with ranged weapons. The PHB describes the latter while other systems (namely Iron Heroes) describe the former. Just looking for a clarification here, really. [*]Depends on the first answer above, but if opponents share a space when one is holding the other, and the individual being held breaks free (of all holds, if multiple), do either get any kind of immediate movement so they aren't sharing a space any longer? Or are they just forced apart when one of their initiatives comes up? [*]If someone is successfully held, you describe their -4 to AC to other opponents and delineate their options for attacking with a light weapon or natural attack at a -4 penalty, or unarmed strikes without penalty. They also can't use two weapons. However, it's not clear to me whether they can use those options only against the person(s) holding them, or whether they could choose to attack foes outside the grapple but within range. It's very cinematic to have the hero being held in a choke hold by one opponent and being unable to shake him loose before another foe comes up to join the fun; the hero kicks the new guy away before throwing the holder off of him. :) [/list] I admit, it's mentally a bit difficult for me to "turn off" the Core rules and the IH rules we've been using more recently, but running through a few sample combats led me to these questions above. Sorry if I've missed the answers to some/all of my questions if they're already addressed in your text (though I'd still appreciate knowing exactly where I missed them). I think a handful of quick examples would go a long way to pointing out how simple this system is. Using Archie, Biff & Clyde at the end of each manuever section would go pretty quick, and the fact that all the paragraphs would be really short is another testament to how easy these rules are to use. :) Thanks. [/QUOTE]
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