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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raelcreve" data-source="post: 2350205" data-attributes="member: 7083">D'ohI didn't intend for this to be a rules argument.  Yes, it belongs in that section since it's become that.  I was looking to see if anyone had posted variant grappling rules somewhere.  I apologize for generalizing when I said "we all know the grappling rules suck."  I think they do.    <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid    :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /> Actually I'm the one who said "ungainly".  My whole problem is how the rules for grappling work.  Some of the things are very good (touch attack, provoke AoO).  But the 4 step process and all the opposing rolls interrupt the flow of play.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> I know the combat rules are unrealistic: I've been in the martial arts for 17 years.In touch with reality?  Please.  I was pointing out the things a grapple based character is going to have problems with, not a plea to make grappling more effective.And I said you cannot pin someone with "only" one hand.  That means just your one hand, no wall or floor.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> The actual grappling action should be no different than regular combat.  They need a subset of rules on their own, yes, but from the combat standpoint, it shouldn't be any different.I guess from all the years of aikido and jujitsu I'm underwhelmed by the grappling rules, since it's such an effective form of combat.  It looks like they threw it in as an afterthought, since the big monsters needed a way to squash puny PCs.   :\ Yes, I am aware that you need to suspend reality when using the combat in D&D.  I'm more of a strategic and tactical DM, so I tend to focus more an "realistic" combat.  To me, the grapple rules seem to be less so than the rest...</blockquote>

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