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Grappling with a Flaming Sphere, a burning Web & a trapped Brown Bear?
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<blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1367278" data-attributes="member: 994"><p>Last night my 4th level party fought the Troglodytes and Brown Bear in the Forge of Fury. While the Trogs were nothing more than window dressing (except for their sickening stench) the Brown Bear proved to be a significant challenge, but a couple questions came up during the battle.</p><p> </p><p>The Bear was doing quite well after using Improved Grab to mess with the sickened Elven Fighter/Rogue. The Dwarf Fighter moved up to help his ally out and started laying into the beast. I tried to use Improve Grab with the -20 penalty to damage the Elf with one Claw, and use the remaining Claw and Bite to attack the Dwarf. The Bear lost the opposed Grapple check.</p><p> </p><p>1) What happens? Since the Bear lost, but it was the Bear's turn, I'm fairly confident the Elf is still grappled (you can only escape a grapple on your turn) and that the Elf takes no damage from the Claw attack. Now, since he lost the Grapple check with the -20 penalty, what are the bear's options? Is he limited to using his other Claw and Bite attack against the Elf? Or can he still use them against the Dwarf, but is still considered grappled so loses his Dex vs everybody except the Elf?</p><p> </p><p>2) On the Elf's turn, does the Bear have to take the same -20 penalty as the Elf tries to Escape the grapple? Or is that -20 penalty only there for that one special grapple check? Does it matter for later grapple checks in the round if the Bear succeeded at the grapple check on his turn?</p><p> </p><p>The Wizard then cast <em>Flaming Sphere</em> and rolled it into one of the 4 spaces the Brown Bear occupied (Bear made the Reflex save).</p><p> </p><p>3) Since the Brown Bear and Elf PC were grappling, is the PC actually in just a single square since he's a Medium-sized Elf? Leaving the other 3 squares the Brown Bear occupies as valid targets for the <em>Flaming Sphere</em>? Or do the Elf and Bear "share" all 4 squares here since they're grappling? The Elf was mauled pretty badly, so the Wizard really didn't want to hurt his ally with the <em>Flaming Sphere</em>, but argued the Bear is Large so he should be able to burn the bear and not the Elf.</p><p> </p><p>Because of the <em>Flaming Sphere</em> and an animal's natural fear of fire, the Bear won the next opposed Grapple check and used the Move option to drag the Elf 20' away. That's a Standard action according to the PHB.</p><p> </p><p>4) What can the Bear do with it's remaining Move Action? An intelligent opponent might be able to do something nifty, but I couldn't come up with anything for the Bear. Any ideas? I would've loved for him to move further away from the fire, but he doesn't have another Standard Action this turn to drag the Elf with him, and since he used a Standard Action to Grapple-Move with the Elf, he didn't have access to a Full Attack Action to make use of his Claws or Bite, right?</p><p> </p><p>The remainder of the round the party took potshots with Xbows, or healed the Dwarf (who needed it). On his next turn the Wizard used his Move action to roll the <em>Flaming Sphere</em> into the Bear's space again (Bear made the Reflex save). He then used a Standard Action to cast <em>Web</em> over the entire area (he wanted to trap the Bear from running away with the Elf, he didn't think about the <em>Flaming Sphere</em> burning some of the <em>Web</em> away). The Bear failed that Reflex save so was immobilized by the <em>Web</em>, the Elf made his save so was now Sickened, Entangled & Grappled but not immobilized.</p><p> </p><p>Here's the relevant passage from the <em>Web</em> spell:</p><p> </p><p>5) Does "set the webs alight" mean the first round a <em>Web</em> encounters fire only a 5' square is burned, but the next round any square surrounding that one is burned away, and so on? Does a <em>Web</em> keep burning after being lit? Or do you have to burn each 5' square individually to clear it?</p><p> </p><p>6) Does a large creature with a 10' space take potentially 2d4 fire damage for each of his 4 squares? If yes, does he get a bonus on his Strength or Escape Artist checks if the <em>Web</em> is affecting only 3 of his squares? Only 2? 1?</p><p> </p><p>I ask the latter because the letter of the rules seems to indicate that it's 2d4 for each 5' square, and even a single square of <em>Web</em> can immobilize a Large or bigger creature on a failed save. If so, that makes <em>Web</em> a VERY excellent spell against Large or bigger creatures; they get screwed both ways. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></p><p> </p><p>Thanks in advance for any help!</p><p> </p><p>DrSpunj</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DrSpunj, post: 1367278, member: 994"] Last night my 4th level party fought the Troglodytes and Brown Bear in the Forge of Fury. While the Trogs were nothing more than window dressing (except for their sickening stench) the Brown Bear proved to be a significant challenge, but a couple questions came up during the battle. The Bear was doing quite well after using Improved Grab to mess with the sickened Elven Fighter/Rogue. The Dwarf Fighter moved up to help his ally out and started laying into the beast. I tried to use Improve Grab with the -20 penalty to damage the Elf with one Claw, and use the remaining Claw and Bite to attack the Dwarf. The Bear lost the opposed Grapple check. 1) What happens? Since the Bear lost, but it was the Bear's turn, I'm fairly confident the Elf is still grappled (you can only escape a grapple on your turn) and that the Elf takes no damage from the Claw attack. Now, since he lost the Grapple check with the -20 penalty, what are the bear's options? Is he limited to using his other Claw and Bite attack against the Elf? Or can he still use them against the Dwarf, but is still considered grappled so loses his Dex vs everybody except the Elf? 2) On the Elf's turn, does the Bear have to take the same -20 penalty as the Elf tries to Escape the grapple? Or is that -20 penalty only there for that one special grapple check? Does it matter for later grapple checks in the round if the Bear succeeded at the grapple check on his turn? The Wizard then cast [i]Flaming Sphere[/i] and rolled it into one of the 4 spaces the Brown Bear occupied (Bear made the Reflex save). 3) Since the Brown Bear and Elf PC were grappling, is the PC actually in just a single square since he's a Medium-sized Elf? Leaving the other 3 squares the Brown Bear occupies as valid targets for the [i]Flaming Sphere[/i]? Or do the Elf and Bear "share" all 4 squares here since they're grappling? The Elf was mauled pretty badly, so the Wizard really didn't want to hurt his ally with the [i]Flaming Sphere[/i], but argued the Bear is Large so he should be able to burn the bear and not the Elf. Because of the [i]Flaming Sphere[/i] and an animal's natural fear of fire, the Bear won the next opposed Grapple check and used the Move option to drag the Elf 20' away. That's a Standard action according to the PHB. 4) What can the Bear do with it's remaining Move Action? An intelligent opponent might be able to do something nifty, but I couldn't come up with anything for the Bear. Any ideas? I would've loved for him to move further away from the fire, but he doesn't have another Standard Action this turn to drag the Elf with him, and since he used a Standard Action to Grapple-Move with the Elf, he didn't have access to a Full Attack Action to make use of his Claws or Bite, right? The remainder of the round the party took potshots with Xbows, or healed the Dwarf (who needed it). On his next turn the Wizard used his Move action to roll the [i]Flaming Sphere[/i] into the Bear's space again (Bear made the Reflex save). He then used a Standard Action to cast [i]Web[/i] over the entire area (he wanted to trap the Bear from running away with the Elf, he didn't think about the [i]Flaming Sphere[/i] burning some of the [i]Web[/i] away). The Bear failed that Reflex save so was immobilized by the [i]Web[/i], the Elf made his save so was now Sickened, Entangled & Grappled but not immobilized. Here's the relevant passage from the [i]Web[/i] spell: 5) Does "set the webs alight" mean the first round a [i]Web[/i] encounters fire only a 5' square is burned, but the next round any square surrounding that one is burned away, and so on? Does a [i]Web[/i] keep burning after being lit? Or do you have to burn each 5' square individually to clear it? 6) Does a large creature with a 10' space take potentially 2d4 fire damage for each of his 4 squares? If yes, does he get a bonus on his Strength or Escape Artist checks if the [i]Web[/i] is affecting only 3 of his squares? Only 2? 1? I ask the latter because the letter of the rules seems to indicate that it's 2d4 for each 5' square, and even a single square of [i]Web[/i] can immobilize a Large or bigger creature on a failed save. If so, that makes [i]Web[/i] a VERY excellent spell against Large or bigger creatures; they get screwed both ways. :( Thanks in advance for any help! DrSpunj [/QUOTE]
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