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Grappling with a Flaming Sphere, a burning Web & a trapped Brown Bear?
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<blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1378316" data-attributes="member: 994"><p>Problem is, that's <em>not</em> what the rules say. If they did say "2d4 <u>per creature</u>", then would you have ALL the <em>Webs</em> in a creature's space be burned away at the same time? That could be quite a few squares if your dealing with a Bear (4 squares) or a Huge Monstrous Centipede (9 squares). Your quote, however, is correct, so a combat could (and pretty much did <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />) play out like this:</p><p></p><p>Round 1) Wizard completely (all 4 squares) <em>Webs</em> the Bear who fails his Reflex save (so both entangled and can't move). Fighter uses his Flaming Sword to burn his way to the Bear and burns the <em>Webs</em> in one of the Bear's 4 squares. We're all agreed that only one 5' square is burned away each time fire is brought into a <em>Web</em>bed square, right? Bear takes 2d4 points of damage, right? One 5' square = 2d4 fire damage. Right. Bear "spends 1 round" and unfortunately fails his Strength check (it's likely, he only gets a +8 so has a 55% chance of missing the DC), so remains stuck <em>and can take no further actions that round</em>.</p><p></p><p>Round 2) Wizard casts <em>Flaming Sphere</em> and rolls it into <u>one</u> of the Bear's 3 remaining <em>Web</em>bed squares. Now, according to Kershek's post, it seems the Bear shouldn't take any further damage. After all, if it was 2d4 per creature the Bear already took some heat last round. Unfortunately, the rules state pretty plainly that the Bear will again take 2d4 damage from the burning <em>Webs</em> this round, even if the beast does manage to make the Reflex save to avoid the <em>Flaming Sphere</em>. The Fighter on his turn uses his Flaming Sword to clear the <em>Webs</em> away from the one of the Bear's 2 remaining <em>Web</em>bed squares doing an additional 2d4 damage. Let's give the Bear a break now and say he makes his Strength check to get loose. Unfortunately that takes "1 round" so he's still a sitting duck for the Wizard and the Fighter since he's spending his action breaking loose and not mauling the Fighter.</p><p></p><p>Round 3) Assuming the Wizard and Fighter don't kill the Bear on their turns, nor burn that last remaining square of <em>Web</em>bing, the Bear can finally try to move out of the <em>Web</em>. </p><p></p><p>Actually, that's another couple clarifications I'd appreciate getting on this spell. The text of the <em>Web</em> spell says:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1st Bolded section: What does "spending 1 round" mean? If a PC is stuck in the <em>Web</em> and says to you (the DM) they're trying to break out using Strength or the Escape Artist check, what do you do? Do you have them roll right then? This lets everyone know they've succeeded or failed. Or do you have them declare their action and have them roll the dice at the beginning of their next turn? The latter is more suspenseful since no one (the PC, allies, enemies, etc.) knows whether the PC is going to be able to break loose and therefore what their potential action choices are.</p><p></p><p>Since this action takes "1 round" they don't get any other actions (thank goodness they're immobilized in the first place, so we don't have to figure out if they get a 5' step) this turn.</p><p></p><p>2nd Bolded section: In my example at the top of this post the Bear makes his Strength check in Round 2 and tries to move out of the last remaining <em>Web</em>bed square in his space on Round 3. Given the 2nd Bolded section above, the Bear still has to beat a DC 15 Strength check to move his lumbering butt 5' away, right? And that takes his whole turn <em>again</em> to do so, right?</p><p></p><p>Wow. I think it's important to realize that any creature who fails that initial Reflex save loses <em>at least</em> 2 rounds of actions just standing there, with no other actions allowed, to break loose and move 5' (which may or may not be enough to move them completely out of the <em>Web</em>. Wow.</p><p></p><p>Between that and 2d4 per square of fire damage, that's a helluva 2nd level spell. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> </p><p></p><p>Thanks.</p><p></p><p>DrSpunj</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DrSpunj, post: 1378316, member: 994"] Problem is, that's [i]not[/i] what the rules say. If they did say "2d4 [u]per creature[/u]", then would you have ALL the [i]Webs[/i] in a creature's space be burned away at the same time? That could be quite a few squares if your dealing with a Bear (4 squares) or a Huge Monstrous Centipede (9 squares). Your quote, however, is correct, so a combat could (and pretty much did ;)) play out like this: Round 1) Wizard completely (all 4 squares) [i]Webs[/i] the Bear who fails his Reflex save (so both entangled and can't move). Fighter uses his Flaming Sword to burn his way to the Bear and burns the [i]Webs[/i] in one of the Bear's 4 squares. We're all agreed that only one 5' square is burned away each time fire is brought into a [i]Web[/i]bed square, right? Bear takes 2d4 points of damage, right? One 5' square = 2d4 fire damage. Right. Bear "spends 1 round" and unfortunately fails his Strength check (it's likely, he only gets a +8 so has a 55% chance of missing the DC), so remains stuck [i]and can take no further actions that round[/i]. Round 2) Wizard casts [i]Flaming Sphere[/i] and rolls it into [u]one[/u] of the Bear's 3 remaining [i]Web[/i]bed squares. Now, according to Kershek's post, it seems the Bear shouldn't take any further damage. After all, if it was 2d4 per creature the Bear already took some heat last round. Unfortunately, the rules state pretty plainly that the Bear will again take 2d4 damage from the burning [i]Webs[/i] this round, even if the beast does manage to make the Reflex save to avoid the [i]Flaming Sphere[/i]. The Fighter on his turn uses his Flaming Sword to clear the [i]Webs[/i] away from the one of the Bear's 2 remaining [i]Web[/i]bed squares doing an additional 2d4 damage. Let's give the Bear a break now and say he makes his Strength check to get loose. Unfortunately that takes "1 round" so he's still a sitting duck for the Wizard and the Fighter since he's spending his action breaking loose and not mauling the Fighter. Round 3) Assuming the Wizard and Fighter don't kill the Bear on their turns, nor burn that last remaining square of [i]Web[/i]bing, the Bear can finally try to move out of the [i]Web[/i]. Actually, that's another couple clarifications I'd appreciate getting on this spell. The text of the [i]Web[/i] spell says: 1st Bolded section: What does "spending 1 round" mean? If a PC is stuck in the [i]Web[/i] and says to you (the DM) they're trying to break out using Strength or the Escape Artist check, what do you do? Do you have them roll right then? This lets everyone know they've succeeded or failed. Or do you have them declare their action and have them roll the dice at the beginning of their next turn? The latter is more suspenseful since no one (the PC, allies, enemies, etc.) knows whether the PC is going to be able to break loose and therefore what their potential action choices are. Since this action takes "1 round" they don't get any other actions (thank goodness they're immobilized in the first place, so we don't have to figure out if they get a 5' step) this turn. 2nd Bolded section: In my example at the top of this post the Bear makes his Strength check in Round 2 and tries to move out of the last remaining [i]Web[/i]bed square in his space on Round 3. Given the 2nd Bolded section above, the Bear still has to beat a DC 15 Strength check to move his lumbering butt 5' away, right? And that takes his whole turn [i]again[/i] to do so, right? Wow. I think it's important to realize that any creature who fails that initial Reflex save loses [i]at least[/i] 2 rounds of actions just standing there, with no other actions allowed, to break loose and move 5' (which may or may not be enough to move them completely out of the [i]Web[/i]. Wow. Between that and 2d4 per square of fire damage, that's a helluva 2nd level spell. :p Thanks. DrSpunj [/QUOTE]
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