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Message: <blockquote data-quote="apsuman" data-source="post: 1196417" data-attributes="member: 1769">I agree with you, I think I was always was.  I interpreted your post as that we were not on the same page.My point (which might just be from my own misunderstainding of Camarth's posts) is that some people (i think camarth) belive that unattended magic item always get a save, and I don't think so.  Since his SRD citation was under the label of DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS and from the text of said citation, clearly if there is a damaging effect targeted on an unattended magic item it gets a save.  The difference (between what I think his point was and mine) is that I think that nondamaging effects do not give the unattended magic item a save.  It turns out that the Wall of Ice example is not a good one (unless someone wants to claim that a magic sword get a reflex save to avoid being trapped), so this time I will pick Faire Fire, or Light, or Darkness, or Daylight, or Arcane Mark, or ok that might be the whole list.  But these spells do no damage and I think should effect unattended magic items and give them no save.  AS I read this thread, I think some people think that unattended magic items should get a save.There, I think that is the point in contention.g!</blockquote>