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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7199898" data-attributes="member: 12731">Not sure what you mean. You can't *just* focus on the benefit per attack to realize GWM's potential for abuse, since its benefit scales linearly with the number of attacks. In other words, had there been no way to get more than, say, 2 attacks, the benefit of GWM would have been sharply curtailed. GWM can be used by a Fighter 20 to make nine (9) attacks in a nova round. That's +90 damage, unless you have worse than average luck. How is the number of attacks not relevant?Calling it a "tangent" is a bit harsh I think, considering how it is the exact same mechanism. And you're not the only one I'm talking to here. But sure, let's focus on GWM.I don't and the context gave me no clue.Sorry what? You don't need to make a "point" of the trivial fact you can pick Precision even without GWM. What I would appreciate, however, is you meeting *my* point that Precision is much more useful if your base damage were to be increased by +10.Sorry, you don't get to simply say this. It's too unspecific, and I don't know where to counter such a vague claim. Prove it. Or at least point out my math mistakes.First off, just saying "math indicates otherwise" is unhelpful. What exact figure of mine do you contest?Second, what are you talking about. How is it relevant to our discussion that "precision dice can only be applied to eight out of twenty rolls". First, we have advantage - it is not a linear distribution. Second, I never said to use Precision on eight results - I specifically chose to use Precision only on four results.At the end there it seems you made the grave mistake of including the average DPR with GWM even against AC 21. Nobody would ever use GWM against an opponent with that high AC. You are forgetting that using GWM is optional. Sorry, but I need you to redo all your calculations (or at least share your spreadsheet) - allowing AC 21 to drag down the average is a critical mistake that completely skews your results.(What you need to do is calculate the DPR both with and without GWM. And then take the bigger of the two resulting values for each AC to model how a math-savvy player never uses GWM when it is detrimental to do so). I addressed this specifically. Yes, you can roll a 1 on your d10 (I was using d10s since my example character had 11 fighter levels) and still miss. But I believe to have included all that in my calculations.And again: while you "always gain a bang for your buck" I maintain this leads you to draw the wrong conclusion. You STILL burn through your superiority dice MUCH faster if you use damage maneuvers than if you use the precision maneuver. What you're forgetting is that all the times you hit even without having to use Precision is an attack where you didn't have to spend a superiority dice at all. This happenstance more than well compensates for the (relatively rare) times where you "lose" a precision die (you use it, roll low, and still miss). If you still don't see it, ask, and I will be happy to take you through it step by step. It's all due to the non-linear curve of advantage.Since in my example I hit 85% of the time and not 50%, the reality is even better than what I said. You really need to restate what your point is here, because while I can understand you are pointing out that my rough calculations doesn't pan out, you're using an example where reality was even better than my estimate?What, exactly, is the mess. I didn't spend all that time just for you to dismiss my example as "a mess". Please point out exactly where you feel I am unclear and I shall do my best to clean it up for you.That I gave the GWM guy a magical weapon was just to maintain par with the first guy that was using a hand crossbow. By providing a +2 weapon, I just wanted to make it easier to compare results (since the hand crossbow guy gets +2 from Archery).If you ask specific questions and point out vague sections I shall do better.There is no guy without GWM - not yet anyway. I specifically said we need to first agree on a replacement feat, and then I'm fully willing to repeat the exercise for this comparison character. What is your suggestion for this feat, Ancalagon? In other words, which is the feat you feel does most damage (besides the -5/+10 feats), and we can use that one. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Regards,Zapp</blockquote>

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