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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 592815" data-attributes="member: 2013">Come to think of it, there is the even more abusive alternate...The Whirlwind Attack/Creeping Doom/Great Cleave alternate.Step one: Position twinked rog10/ftr4 next to (flanked) dragon.  Rog10/ftr4 has the Whirlwind Attack and Great Cleave Feats (5 Feats for char. level, 3 bonus fighter feats - takes Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack and Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave for 8 feats total).Rog10/ftr4 BAB: +11 but with no WF, same total attack roll as earlier example of Rog13/Ftr1; has only 5d6 Sneak Attack damage.  Also has Special Ability (take Crippling Strike).Step two: Druid scroll to cast Creeping Doom.  Put edge of swarm adjacent to fighter (so that the fighter has the Doom in two diagonally connected and one "edge"-connected square like so:CD|CD|(F)(DRAGON)(FLANKER)CD|Step three: Twink unleashes a Whirlwind Attack.  Gets one shot at Dragon at highest BAB as part of WA.  Also gets 187 shots on the swarm (1000 1-hp creatures in a 16-square area of which the twink gets a shot at 3 squares).  On average, the twink connects on 178 of these shots, leading to 178 Great Cleave free attacks on Dragon.Thus, sequence goes:WA Attack on Dragon - WA Attack on Bug #1 - GC Attack on Dragon - WA Attack on Bug #2 - GC Attack on Dragon - WA Attack on Bug #3 - and so on.Net result...179 Attacks (1 from WA plus 178 from GC) on Dragon, each with a 55% hit chance.Total number of hits (on average) 98.Total Average Damage:98d8(sword)+98d6(flaming)+1176 (Str)+490d6(Sneak Attack) for a neat total of:3,675 points of damage ON AVERAGE WITH NO CRITICALS.Oh, and don't forget 98 points of Strength Damage.Even if the dragon can soak up 3,675 hp of damage, can it soak 98 points of Str Damage?If it can soak up both, you were SOL anyway. :-bFor nastier variation, overlap 3 Creeping Doom Spells so that 7 of the 8 squares surrounding the character have Doom in them - the 8th of course is the dragon (may be impossible due to dragon face - you have to catch the dragon on a "corner").  Pull THAT one off and score a mere 415 attacks due to downed Doom Beetles.I'll do the math for you: that's 8,575 hp on average (no crits) and 228 Strength damage. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> (recall that only 55% of your attacks hit - 228 is 55% of 415)Even GODS don't soak up that kind of damage (esp. Str Damage).How's THAT for abusive?(EDIT: It's possible that this combo has been errata'd out of existence somehow, and most DMs who are aware of it have house rules against it, but still, it's VERY VERY VERY nasty if you can get away with it).(EDIT 2: I also posted the "AoO twink" first because that seems SLIGHTLY more in the spirit of the rules - this one is patently ridiculous but "technically" legal).--The Sigil</blockquote>

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