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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ravellion" data-source="post: 637288" data-attributes="member: 538">As Wizards only have a few 9th level spells, so can fighters only make one of their attacks each round at highest BAB (probably two with haste).I don't think the argument about advancing monsters really holds. Most of the stuff is quite easy to get at low levels (GSF at 1st level is possible, getting your sleep DC up to 20 for your grey elf.), when advancement cannot be used yet. At higher levels you could, but most creatures actually have a crap will save when advancing, so you'll find high CR creatures being taken out with one spell quite reliably, as your DCs increase 1 every two levels, but their saves only 1 every three HD. Since party balance, or an iconic party, dictates/has one wizard, that throws CR reliability right out the window, although I must agree that at this point I have no problems. I just used to have them... I had to work around DC's too much when trying to challenge my players. Them being just 4 lower (no Spellcasting prodigy, Grey elves or GSF) made such a world of difference: I can actually use Giants or Tanks again as creatures worth their CR. My max Enchantment DC at 20th level is 33. Yours is 37 (or with spellpower, god knows). With the save of a 20th level fighter with a +6 cloak of resistance and iron will being +14 up to +18 dependig on Wisdom, my fighter has a chance, albeit slim. Yours is toast. Always, except a 20. he would have been better off not taking iron will and just taking the spells like a man/ spell target practice.I just can't see how you all do it without throwing lots of weirdness (ie. the somewhat more exotic creatures of the MM, which I like to reserve for spelcial occasions) at your PCs.I am not trying to be a horrible little man. I am Dutch you know, even though I am a very short Dutchman (5'9"). if you were pointing to my avatar -  I am actually a gnome "hater"! I just thought of the idea of a gnome behind a DM screen to be quite cool. And the horrible... well, blame that on Nutkinland conditioning <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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