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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3328897" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well granted, but part of what makes U1 so good is that it sets up the players for a continuing epic storyline.  If it wasn't for the secrets uncovered, the module wouldn't be as satisfying.  The story line which is revealed however doesn't deliver in the same fashion that 'Lost' just doesn't deliver (IMO).I know what you said.  But if the module has serious problems as an introductory module, then it has a problem.  The ideal first level adventure would be both highly enjoyable for experienced players and novices alike.  For example, I think 'Whispering Cairn' is at least as good for experienced players, has just as varied of challenges, and while its a very difficult module with few exceptions its not going to kill novices off in as arbitrary of fashion as the repeated 'save or die' situations in SSoS.I agree wholeheartedly.  I sprung green slime, yellow mold, rot grubs and other dungeoneering hazards on a group of experienced 3rd edition players with 5 or so years of experience and wiped out half of a group of 4th level characters because they literally had no idea what to do.  And its not like I made much of an effort to hide the yellow mold, and I even had the green slime one room away from one with a sky light in it so all you needed to do was drag the slimed character back into the previous room and you'd be good.  I even had a smoldering fire in the same room so that they didn't need flint and tender, torches and what not.  But they basically looked at me with horrified looks on thier face, "Like what is this strange cthullan green slime that is eating my character?  If I can't swing a sword at it I'm helpless!!!" Which is all fine and good.  But that's not metagaming and it isn't what I was complaining about.  What I'm complaining about is that Ned according to the text introduces himself to the party as a 2nd level thief.  "Hello, I'm Ned Strangelock, a 2nd level thief."  Or only slightly better, "Hi, I'm Ned, a footpad.  Do you have any work for thieves around here?" And the text goes on to suggest that the best way to uncover his disguise is to question him in thieves cant, which being an assassin he won't know.  Now that is metagaming.  The only thing that could make it worse would be, "Heh there, I'm Ned, a 2nd level chaotic good thief with 9 hit points.  What's that, no I don't speak either thieves cant or the chaotic good alignment tongue.  Maybe I forgot them after my head trauma that I'm showing no real sign of.  Gee, I guess you just saw through my brilliant disguise."  Which is precisely why the problems with U2 and U3 are so relevant to evaluating the strength of U1.I agree with that.  I'm continually amazed by how much story and how much adventure is packed into a 1st edition module.</blockquote>

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