Greatest American? (All Over on Page Eight)

[Dark Jezter]

I can't believe Reagan won out over someone like Abraham Lincoln or George Washington. He was a freaking actor who just happened to be president when communism collapsed.

There are many in Eastern Europe and former Soviet bloc countries who would disagree with you. In those locations, Reagan is remembered as the American president who stared down Moscow and won. Even the Russians themselves can aknowledge the role Reagan played in bringing down the Soviet Union. To quote Gennady Gerasimov, top spokesman of the Soviet Foreign Ministry in the 1980s, "Reagan bolstered the U.S. military might to ruin the Soviet economy, and he achieved his goal."

One lesser-known facet of Reagan's anti-Soviet strategy took place early in his first term (1982 or so); Reagan decided that he wanted to take a big chunk out of the Soviet income. William Casey (Director of the Central Intelligence Agency at the time) suggested that the best way to do that would be to reduce the price of oil. So Reagan went to the Saudis.

Reagan struck a deal with the king of Saudi Arabia: The U.S. would sell AWACS to the Saudis and agree to defend the borders of Saudi Arabia against invasion, and in exchange the Saudis would defy OPEC limits and greatly increase their own oil production. Reagan browbeat congress into authorizing the sale of AWACS to Saudi Arabia, and not long after that the Saudis started pumping more oil (at the time, not very many people noticed that the increased oil production came right after the sales of AWACS). What happened next should come as no surprise to anybody familiar with the concept of supply and demand: the price of oil fell sharply.

Because the Soviets depended heavily on petrolium exports as their primary source of income, the falling price of oil tore a very big chunk out of their pocketbooks. When Reagan began his defense build-up, the Soviets tried to keep up using money that they didn't have. In the end, it destroyed what was left of their economy.

I'm not giving sole credit to Reagan for ending the Cold War, but I am saying the played a major role in the fall of the Soviet Empire. Acting like he played no role at all smacks of flaming partisanship.

(An interesting footnote to this little story is that Operation Desert Storm was largely a fulfillment of Reagan's promise to defend Saudi Arabia against invasion. So the next time you see somebody whining that Desert Storm was all about oil, you can tell them that they are right, but not for the reasons they think they are.)

 

[WayneLigon]

- and the Greatest American -1. Ronald Reagan

My dismay and disgust knows no bounds.

 

[diaglo]

I'm not giving sole credit to Reagan for ending the Cold War, but I am saying the played a major role in the fall of the Soviet Empire. Acting like he played no role at all smacks of flaming partisanship.

you don't give Eisenhower enough credit. Reagan was only following Ike's plan.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Not exactly. I think it's more about the strength of emotion. Living through events can create strong emotions that those who come afterward simply do not feel. I think a lot of people voted for Reagan because they felt strongly that he was the greatest American in a way that had little or nothing to do with a factual comparison of his accomplishments with those of the other candidates. He was an inspirational figure for many Americans and I think people voted for him on that basis.

Yes, he lived during the lifetime of many of the voters and that boosted his popularity, but I think it was as much or more because the people who voted for him experienced the times firsthand and developed strong emotions because of it than it was some sort of egocentrism.

That's part of what I meant. Even if it's not for selfish reasons, it's still self-centered to let your personal emotional investment in someone drive a decision-making process like this one. I meant egocentric in a sort of clinical sense, without the selfishness connotation that it has acquired. After all, we call young children who are cognitively incapable of taking another's viewpoint egocentric without meaning that they are necessarily selfish. That's just part of being human, really, and we all do it to one extent or another.

 

[Belen]

I can't believe Reagan won out over someone like Abraham Lincoln or George Washington. He was a freaking actor who just happened to be president when communism collapsed.

I can believe it. If you believe that this is the case, then you've already subscribed to a partisan rewrite of history. Others have already mentioned a few things in this thread that show exactly how Reagan took a hammer and nail to the USSR's coffin. You can "believe" whatever you wish, but that does not make it fact.

My personal choice was Thomas Jefferson, although I think that Alexander Hamilton should also have ranked high in the list.

 

[Mark]

Again, I say, "Dr. Phil?!?!"

 

[reveal]

That's part of what I meant. Even if it's not for selfish reasons, it's still self-centered to let your personal emotional investment in someone drive a decision-making process like this one. I meant egocentric in a sort of clinical sense, without the selfishness connotation that it has acquired. After all, we call young children who are cognitively incapable of taking another's viewpoint egocentric without meaning that they are necessarily selfish. That's just part of being human, really, and we all do it to one extent or another.

What's the famous quote? "History is written by the winners." History has always been, and will always be, written by those who use their personal bias' to influence their words.

 

[reveal]

Again, I say, "Dr. Phil?!?!"

I haven't seen the show. Knowing that Dr. Phil is on the list makes me glad I didn't. :\

 

[Eridanis]

Closing thread per thread starter's request; the show has aired. Please feel free to start other non-political/non-religious threads on the subject, though.