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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jester47" data-source="post: 268450" data-attributes="member: 2238">No, that is not what I am saying.  Lets run through your examples.  The man at Tianiaman (actually he was not there, he was on the higway to the square, taking his groceries home):Most everyone everywhere will say that this guy was a hero when presented with the situation.He was trying to do the right thing.  Keep the tanks from getting to the square.  For the time of his confrontation he won consistantly.  If he had gotten run over or shot, he would not be a hero, he would be a martyr.  There was a chance that he could have died and that did not stop him.  Thus he is a hero.Flight 93 is the same thing.  They all fit the criteria.  They won. The guy with the life jacket, same thing.  He achieved his goal, he wins. The nurse helps the patient, fits all criteria.  The firefighter is the same.  He fits the criteria.  The fact that he is a Firefighter and still alive indicates that he wins most of the time. You need to redefine your definition of winning and success.The only reason you are tellingme that Mike Dorn's character is a hero is because you know of the story.  You accept the story as heroic because it is.  Most everyone else would too.  There is a whole slew of people that we do not hear about.  But, if we were to hear their story (because we do not hear it does not mean it did not happen) and it is the type of story everyone the world over would appreciate the deed of the person the story is about, then that hero is universal.   The term universal does not mean everyone is aware, but that the deed done would be considered good in all cultures and to most people.  I never said that people had to know about it.  What I meant was that even if the events are unknown, if the story found a way to be told, and was told worldwide, a true hero would be recognised as such from Congo to Bangladesh to Nicaraugua, to New York.  Winning does not equate survival or defeating another, universality does not equate recognition. And remember that my criteria were for the [[[GREATEST]]] hero.  This is not the greatest NATIONAL hero, or the myriad of daily heroes, but the BIG KAHUNA, THE CHEESE OF THE CROP, THE BEST OF THE BEST.  The person in the 99.999999 percentile.  The one person the whole world would stop and say "yes, that guy is a hero."  So the GREATEST hero (and all the others too):1. would be recognised as a hero universally if everyone heard about that person.2. always tries to do the right thing3. achieves whatever right thing it is they set out to do or dies trying (meaning they never give up on a fight, challenge, or goal)4. must be mortal (i.e. they have to fail sometime)That is what I mean.  Aaron.</blockquote>

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