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<blockquote data-quote="HealingAura" data-source="post: 4437941" data-attributes="member: 71433">Saeviomagy: Two of the player characters are unaligned (the rogue and the ranger) and the wizard is good, but it feels more like having a group of Evil and Chaotic Evil characters... and I am actually not ok with it.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Byronic: The players themselves are not greedy, they just play their characters as if they were greedy. It feels like their way of thinking is &quot;Why should I give this sneaky guy this shiny dagger that I found but can't use?&quot;, when it should be &quot;I can't use this dagger so lets just give it to this sneaky guy who will benefit from it more than anyone else&quot;. When I suggested that the ranger will just simply sell it to the rogue and get more GP than he'd get from selling it in a store, the rogue refused and then stole it from the ranger.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; kuonji: I myself as a player hates it when players want to steal stuff from one another. It just feels dumb and pointless to me. Even when I played an Evil character in AD&amp;D I didn't do any of those and my character tried to convince the other players not to do it. Maybe I followed the &quot;Saying Yes&quot; DM advice too much and allowed them to do things that they can do, but are not supposed to do (killing each other, stealing from each other, using magic missile to destroy locks, using magic missile to break a huge rock and such).&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; kouk:&nbsp; &nbsp; Ask them why they are killing each other over loot.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I will have this conversation with them next session. Until the last session they didn't even got to negative HP, but when the wizard claimed his stolen Flaming Long Bow from the ranger (who looted it from his body after the last combat), he had only 10 HP and the ranger shot 2 arrows dealing 28 damage todal (-18 HP = dead).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Make sure they have a clear way forward and that there is promise for fighting and looting.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Oh there are clearly enough fighting and looting in my adventure. If they just continued they'd get more treasure without killing each other.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Make sure that all party members are useful.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; All of them feel useful. The rogue is used a lot for opening locked doors and for close combat (because the fourth player who plays the warrior never comes to our sessions). The wizard is the ultimate minion killing machine, and the Ranger is probably the strongest of them in combat.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Consider having them make shared back stories.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No can do. My adventure involves characters from around the world being kidnapped and kept in a cave and now they are trying to escape and investigate who is behind it and why.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Give them quests to go on with goals, not just &quot;kill things and take their stuff&quot; dungeon crawls.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I want to! I really do! But it takes them too much time to get out from this not-so-huge cave (or should I say dungeon) because of wasting time on dividing treasure...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Make sure that the found loot is fairly specific to individual characters&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have already done that. All the things they got so far are a flaming long bow, a duelist's dagger and an orb of inevitable continuance. The warrior would get something if he came to our sessions.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You were right, it really was long, but I thank you for your help <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Nail: If I see that they are not listening then I'd just have to house rule it like you suggested.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; ThirdWizard: I think if I had given them no treasure, then they would have probably killed each other faster just to sell the other characters' organs.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; To Drakhar, Solodan, robgmsft and everyone who suggested a way to divide treasure:&nbsp; The way I am going to propose to divide group treasure is like this (I already mentioned it when I was playing the missing player's warrior character):&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1. Divide all GP evenly between all members involved.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Throw all items that nobody wants into the Bag of Holding.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2.1. Sell all the content of the Bag of Holding when visiting town and divide the GP evenly between all party members.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3. If a character wants an item he buys it from all the other characters.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.1. Deciding on a price that is between the normal price and 1/5 of the normal price for the item.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.2. The character who wanted the item pays 1/(n-1) of the decided price to each other member of the party, where &quot;n&quot; is the number of characters in the group.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4. If two or more characters want the item then the highest bidder gets it.&nbsp; What do you think?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HealingAura, post: 4437941, member: 71433"] Saeviomagy: Two of the player characters are unaligned (the rogue and the ranger) and the wizard is good, but it feels more like having a group of Evil and Chaotic Evil characters... and I am actually not ok with it. Byronic: The players themselves are not greedy, they just play their characters as if they were greedy. It feels like their way of thinking is "Why should I give this sneaky guy this shiny dagger that I found but can't use?", when it should be "I can't use this dagger so lets just give it to this sneaky guy who will benefit from it more than anyone else". When I suggested that the ranger will just simply sell it to the rogue and get more GP than he'd get from selling it in a store, the rogue refused and then stole it from the ranger. kuonji: I myself as a player hates it when players want to steal stuff from one another. It just feels dumb and pointless to me. Even when I played an Evil character in AD&D I didn't do any of those and my character tried to convince the other players not to do it. Maybe I followed the "Saying Yes" DM advice too much and allowed them to do things that they can do, but are not supposed to do (killing each other, stealing from each other, using magic missile to destroy locks, using magic missile to break a huge rock and such). kouk: [I]Ask them why they are killing each other over loot.[/I] I will have this conversation with them next session. Until the last session they didn't even got to negative HP, but when the wizard claimed his stolen Flaming Long Bow from the ranger (who looted it from his body after the last combat), he had only 10 HP and the ranger shot 2 arrows dealing 28 damage todal (-18 HP = dead). [I]Make sure they have a clear way forward and that there is promise for fighting and looting.[/I] Oh there are clearly enough fighting and looting in my adventure. If they just continued they'd get more treasure without killing each other. [I]Make sure that all party members are useful.[/I] All of them feel useful. The rogue is used a lot for opening locked doors and for close combat (because the fourth player who plays the warrior never comes to our sessions). The wizard is the ultimate minion killing machine, and the Ranger is probably the strongest of them in combat. [I]Consider having them make shared back stories.[/I] No can do. My adventure involves characters from around the world being kidnapped and kept in a cave and now they are trying to escape and investigate who is behind it and why. [I]Give them quests to go on with goals, not just "kill things and take their stuff" dungeon crawls.[/I] I want to! I really do! But it takes them too much time to get out from this not-so-huge cave (or should I say dungeon) because of wasting time on dividing treasure... [I]Make sure that the found loot is fairly specific to individual characters[/I] I have already done that. All the things they got so far are a flaming long bow, a duelist's dagger and an orb of inevitable continuance. The warrior would get something if he came to our sessions. You were right, it really was long, but I thank you for your help :) Nail: If I see that they are not listening then I'd just have to house rule it like you suggested. ThirdWizard: I think if I had given them no treasure, then they would have probably killed each other faster just to sell the other characters' organs. To Drakhar, Solodan, robgmsft and everyone who suggested a way to divide treasure:[B] The way I am going to propose to divide group treasure is like this (I already mentioned it when I was playing the missing player's warrior character): 1. Divide all GP evenly between all members involved. 2. Throw all items that nobody wants into the Bag of Holding. 2.1. Sell all the content of the Bag of Holding when visiting town and divide the GP evenly between all party members. 3. If a character wants an item he buys it from all the other characters. 3.1. Deciding on a price that is between the normal price and 1/5 of the normal price for the item. 3.2. The character who wanted the item pays 1/(n-1) of the decided price to each other member of the party, where "n" is the number of characters in the group. 4. If two or more characters want the item then the highest bidder gets it. What do you think?[/B] [/QUOTE]

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