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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7905399" data-attributes="member: 22779">Oh, fair enough.&nbsp; Totally get that.&nbsp; Just, totally NOT my take on Greyhawk.&nbsp; I was pretty clear that my take was different, right?&nbsp; See, even back in the AD&amp;D days, I was a pretty avid reader/collector of Dragon (or The Dragon at that time) and most of that stuff was just D&amp;D - which meant that it was for Greyhawk.&nbsp; Unless it was stuff like the Princess Ark stuff that was specifically for The Known World, anyway.&nbsp; Which meant that no, these weren't really exceptions.&nbsp; There were all sorts of different races running around Greyhawk.&nbsp; Sure, there were no dragonborn or tieflings, of course.&nbsp; They hadn't been invented yet.&nbsp; But, anything that WAS getting invented, was getting placed in Greyhawk.&nbsp; Every module, every supplement, everything was for Greyhawk.&nbsp; IIRC, even the original Oriental Adventures talked about it being on Oerth.&nbsp; Until the release of Forgotten Realms, EVERYTHING D&amp;D was found in Greyhawk.&nbsp; So, the notion that Greyhawk should be this limited, restricted, narrow, Tolkien rip-off just baffles me.&nbsp; It ignores about twenty years of the game's history.&nbsp; Sure, areas were presented as humanocentric.&nbsp; That's because the GAME was presented that way.&nbsp; As soon as you leave that behind in 2e and later, that humanocentrism vanishes as well.&nbsp; Hey, that's the way you want to view Greyhawk, and that's great.&nbsp; I just think its a very impoverished view of the setting.&nbsp; Greyhawk isn't the &quot;human club&quot; setting to me.&nbsp; It's the &quot;DM's toolkit&quot; setting where every table's version of the setting is expected to be different because it's the setting where the DM should be taking over.&nbsp; It's not a &quot;living setting&quot; like Forgotten Realms where the shape of windows is actually canon.&nbsp; ((While I cannot find the article, there once was one on the WotC site that actually described the shape of windows in some city or other, written by Greenwood himself))&nbsp; Greyhawk is what YOU make it.&nbsp; So when people tell me, &quot;Oh, Greyhawk is that setting where humans dominate&quot;, my first reaction is,<img src="https://i.imgflip.com/28v1v4.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7905399, member: 22779"] Oh, fair enough. Totally get that. Just, totally NOT my take on Greyhawk. I was pretty clear that my take was different, right? See, even back in the AD&D days, I was a pretty avid reader/collector of Dragon (or The Dragon at that time) and most of that stuff was just D&D - which meant that it was for Greyhawk. Unless it was stuff like the Princess Ark stuff that was specifically for The Known World, anyway. Which meant that no, these weren't really exceptions. There were all sorts of different races running around Greyhawk. Sure, there were no dragonborn or tieflings, of course. They hadn't been invented yet. But, anything that WAS getting invented, was getting placed in Greyhawk. Every module, every supplement, everything was for Greyhawk. IIRC, even the original Oriental Adventures talked about it being on Oerth. Until the release of Forgotten Realms, EVERYTHING D&D was found in Greyhawk. So, the notion that Greyhawk should be this limited, restricted, narrow, Tolkien rip-off just baffles me. It ignores about twenty years of the game's history. Sure, areas were presented as humanocentric. That's because the GAME was presented that way. As soon as you leave that behind in 2e and later, that humanocentrism vanishes as well. Hey, that's the way you want to view Greyhawk, and that's great. I just think its a very impoverished view of the setting. Greyhawk isn't the "human club" setting to me. It's the "DM's toolkit" setting where every table's version of the setting is expected to be different because it's the setting where the DM should be taking over. It's not a "living setting" like Forgotten Realms where the shape of windows is actually canon. ((While I cannot find the article, there once was one on the WotC site that actually described the shape of windows in some city or other, written by Greenwood himself)) Greyhawk is what YOU make it. So when people tell me, "Oh, Greyhawk is that setting where humans dominate", my first reaction is, [img]https://i.imgflip.com/28v1v4.jpg[/img] [/QUOTE]

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