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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9356895" data-attributes="member: 6801228">That isn't an answer at all. Do you think explaining things to newbies is better done by someone ignorant? Of course it isn't being written FOR the game designers it is being written BY the game designers. And we have no reason to assume that those game designers are incapable of writing this chapter.Why would a newbie think that Goliaths living with Giants isn't true if the setting says it is true? Why would a newbie who has NEVER read a single piece of lore about Greyhawk think that Goliaths don't already exist and are integrated into the setting? You keep arguing both sides, it will fail because people experienced with the setting will demand explanations, those explanations will fail because people who aren't familiar with the setting won't know why they are needed. But you could tell a newbie that Greyhawk was formed when the Rainbow unicorn puked up the world, and they aren't going to have any reason to question that. As long as the explanation works, they won't care. They are new to the setting.Do you need help building worlds? Category 6 is utterly useless in my mind, because this chapter isn't about whether or not you decide to adopt Greyhawk. That is like saying we need a category 7 for Fashion Designers looking for inspiration, that isn't the point of the chapter, so whether or not it meets that goal is immaterial. So, #1 will be fine. Anything put into the chapter is new to them and they can explore the new setting just fine. #2 is functionally identical to #1. #3 should never touch this chapter. IF you are completely new to gaming and TTRPGs you should not be starting with the chapter on how to build your own world. That would be like enrolling someone with a learner's permit into a Nascar race, why would you do that?! #4 is not the goal the chapter. The goal of the chapter is to teach world-building, not allay the fears of someone who is worried about getting 5e Greyhawk "wrong". And since 5e Greyhawk is going to be different than 3.5 Greyhawk anyways, that person shouldn't be terribly surprised at changes. #5 won't care what the explanation is, just that there is one. SO just saying "they come from the Horned Society" is perfectly fine. And you know what is incredibly noticeable? In your entire category of people you are talking about, you never once mention the people the chapter is ACTUALLY FOR. You know who matters for this chapter? It isn't the rules lawyers, the long-term fans, the greenhorns who don't know what a d20 is. This chapter is for people who want to world-build, and are looking for advice and guidance. That's it. Those are the people who matter for this chapter. No one else does. If someone wants to pull out their Greyhawk Folio from 1983 and shake it at the DMG screaming that back in the day The scarlett Brotherhood was run by this guy, and how dare they change it to that woman!... who cares? That's not the point of the chapter. It isn't an encyclopedia on Greyhawk. It is a chapter on how to world-build, using Greyhawk as an example.So, when you tell people where the orcs are and what they are like? You are literally talking about telling. Showing would be having the PCs meet a demon-worshipping orc and interacting with them. Pointing to a map and just saying that's where they live and this is how they behave is literally telling. It is an info dump.To compare this to a sample character, your worries and accusations read to me like demanding that the sample character of Bruenor Battlehammer in 5e needs to explain why his stats and abilities are different from his 3.5 version, then declaring that "because this is him at a different point of his life" is a horrible explanation, and that instead of using Bruenor as an example character, the example character would be far more effective if it was someone entirely new with no history or baggage, because rules-lawyers are going to point out that Bruenor used to have a different character sheet and this is a retcon. Your concerns don't make sense. You can teach people how to world-build using Greyhawk. It can be done. It is not impossible, it isn't even difficult. They could even choose to use some of the updates as part of the example process, explaining how the thing didn't exist before, but we can add it here, and show how to connect it. Something by the way, that you can't do with a new setting, and something that demonstrates felxibility and a willingness to change the setting, to prevent DMs from getting locked into "but I never had X in my world before" and rejecting it outright. And if they choose to do that with Goliath and dragonborn, but decide they don't need to do it for Tielflings... the chapter still works as intended. It isn't meant to be a chapter explaining Greyhawk, they are actually doing that in the PHB. The PHB is going to cover details on Greyhawk, and might even take a moment to blurb about Tieflings. All you have demonstrated, is that people obsessed with the details of old greyhawk may not be happy with new greyhawk. And I could have told you that back in 2020. But appeasing people determined to be unhappy is so far down the list of concerns, that no one actually cares about it.</blockquote>

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