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Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot
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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8236350" data-attributes="member: 7023840"><p>It's been a while since I've posted about Greyhawk ... AND I HAVE COME BACK FOR MORE!</p><p></p><p>I was inspired by this recent post by [USER=6800327]@The Glen[/USER]:</p><p></p><p><em>Marketing is the biggest issue. How do you make a setting sound fun? Greyhawk is a complete mess politically. The entire region is a powder keg waiting to blow. You've got expansionist Nations looking to increase their borders, secret societies trying to purge the impure, and the supposed good guys can't put aside their differences to present a united front.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>That's what the players are facing. There isn't an elminster in Greyhawk. There isn't going to be high-level saviors that are going to keep the status quo. The high-level Wizards here really don't care about anyone but themselves. And that's a reoccurring theme because a lot of the Nations don't care about what's outside their borders. The elves would watch the Flaeness burn rather than risk their own people.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>It's grim. It's bleak. At any given moment you're looking at Fantasy World War 1 as all the old grudges get settled in a geyser of blood. There aren't many happy endings in Greyhawk. But unlike ravenloft or dark Sun they are still possible. You will earn your happy ending.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is in accord with my general ideas for how to "reboot" or "reintroduce" Greyhawk. In order to bring a viable Greyhawk to 5e, I would observe the following rules:</p><p></p><p><strong>A. Do not slavishly recreate the past. </strong></p><p><strong><em>This Is A Dude Who, 700 Years Ago, Totally Ravaged China, And Who, We Were Told, 2 Hours Ago, Totally Ravaged Oshman’s Sporting Goods. -Bill .... or Ted... mmm, Esquire?</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Greyhawk has a lot of fans, even still. Some love the 1983 set. Others are more about the 3e timeline. Thing is, people like what they like. But you can't go back to the past. If someone loves the old stuff ... they can always play it! There are so many resources for it- from print on demand, to Canonfire, to innumerable Grognards who will be happy to tell you what "real Greyhawk" is like. Point being- if you want the "real" thing, play the real thing. Heck- most of it is doesn't even require much "updating" to 5e, since it was mostly sketches that didn't really rely on rules. </p><p></p><p>The worst approach would be, IMO, to simply cater to the prior fans. For three simple reasons- (1) a slavish re-creation can never live up to what they have in their minds, because they are no longer living in the 80s or 90s or whenever they were playing it, and are not nearly as awesome and young; (2) prior fans would not agree on what makes a good recreation, anyway, and what needed to be incorporated to modernize it while staying true to Greyhawk (just toss out the term "Dragonborn" and see what happens); and (3) new fans DON'T CARE about your past, gramps. And we want new fans.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>B. Quality is what matters. </strong></p><p><strong><em>Quality writing will always attract the high-brow audience. -Chuck Tingle, perhaps.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>When you think back about any successful installment in a movie franchise, or any successful "reboot" of a media property, one thing immediately comes to mind- what matters is the quality. It's such a banal point it should be obvious, and yet ... what matters, what always matters, and what only matters, is the quality of the product. People can (and do) discuss things like "fidelity to canon" or "fan service," and these are all good things; but whether a particular media property is reifying expectations, or subverting them, what matters is that it is ... good. People, even the hardcore-iest of the hardcore fans, forgive a multitude of sins when something is good, whereas it's a lot harder to enjoy if it's bad.</p><p></p><p>More simply- making something high quality is the top priority; fan service should always be the secondary consideration.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>C. Make it relevant and make it different. </strong></p><p><em><strong>See, you can't rewrite, 'cause to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. -Britney Spears, possibly.</strong></em></p><p></p><p>The most important thing about any new version of Greyhawk would be that it has some type of relevance to people today. To use a (perhaps trite) example, elements of the reboot of BSG incorporated concepts from the then-current war on terror to give it some added pathos for current viewers. From that perspective, any person looking to re-do or re-launch Greyhawk would be best served looking at those elements from the past that would differentiate Greyhawk from other settings and make it a distinctive and appealing setting for some gamers.</p><p></p><p>With this is mind, I would argue for the following aspects of Greyhawk that should be brought forward and accentuated, and very much believe that a Greyhawk that more closely resembles a "Game of Thrones" type setting, with darkness, war, and a political backdrop would be very successful!</p><p></p><p><strong>1. The Dying of the Light.</strong></p><p>The Flanaess was once a place of great civilizations. Empires of unimaginable power and magic ruled the land, until they crumbled into dust, victims of their own hubris. Today, the great powers are corrupted from within (the Great Kingdom) or teetering on the edge; a few proud city-states, such as Onnwal, Greyhawk, and Dyvers welcoming traders from far and wide, but much of the land is empty and desolate, with villages and hommlets scraping by meager existences, and the presence of raiding parties a constant threat.</p><p></p><p>The greatest powers lie within tombs, hidden away in forgotten ruins and wrecked cities covered by jungle, long forgotten.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>2. Politics is a zero-sum game.</strong></p><p>The nations of the Flanaess are in constant competition with each other. There are theocracies and bandit kingdoms, free cities and associations of free yeoman; but while alliances are easily made, they are more easily broken. Most nations, even the "good" ones, are looking to expand, and all of them are terrified of any new rising power.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>3. There is real evil, and it's winning.</strong></p><p>While the good and neutral nations mostly squabble amongst themselves, real evil walk the world and cooperates in their plans. At least ... for now. Iuz. The Great Kingdom. And the Scarlet Brotherhood.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's just an opening. But, in the end, pushing Greyhawk as a setting that really accentuates these differences would make it more interesting for a new set of gamers to play. </p><p></p><p>So - what's your pitch? How would you reboot Greyhawk?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8236350, member: 7023840"] It's been a while since I've posted about Greyhawk ... AND I HAVE COME BACK FOR MORE! I was inspired by this recent post by [USER=6800327]@The Glen[/USER]: [I]Marketing is the biggest issue. How do you make a setting sound fun? Greyhawk is a complete mess politically. The entire region is a powder keg waiting to blow. You've got expansionist Nations looking to increase their borders, secret societies trying to purge the impure, and the supposed good guys can't put aside their differences to present a united front. That's what the players are facing. There isn't an elminster in Greyhawk. There isn't going to be high-level saviors that are going to keep the status quo. The high-level Wizards here really don't care about anyone but themselves. And that's a reoccurring theme because a lot of the Nations don't care about what's outside their borders. The elves would watch the Flaeness burn rather than risk their own people. It's grim. It's bleak. At any given moment you're looking at Fantasy World War 1 as all the old grudges get settled in a geyser of blood. There aren't many happy endings in Greyhawk. But unlike ravenloft or dark Sun they are still possible. You will earn your happy ending.[/I] This is in accord with my general ideas for how to "reboot" or "reintroduce" Greyhawk. In order to bring a viable Greyhawk to 5e, I would observe the following rules: [B]A. Do not slavishly recreate the past. [I]This Is A Dude Who, 700 Years Ago, Totally Ravaged China, And Who, We Were Told, 2 Hours Ago, Totally Ravaged Oshman’s Sporting Goods. -Bill .... or Ted... mmm, Esquire?[/I][/B] Greyhawk has a lot of fans, even still. Some love the 1983 set. Others are more about the 3e timeline. Thing is, people like what they like. But you can't go back to the past. If someone loves the old stuff ... they can always play it! There are so many resources for it- from print on demand, to Canonfire, to innumerable Grognards who will be happy to tell you what "real Greyhawk" is like. Point being- if you want the "real" thing, play the real thing. Heck- most of it is doesn't even require much "updating" to 5e, since it was mostly sketches that didn't really rely on rules. The worst approach would be, IMO, to simply cater to the prior fans. For three simple reasons- (1) a slavish re-creation can never live up to what they have in their minds, because they are no longer living in the 80s or 90s or whenever they were playing it, and are not nearly as awesome and young; (2) prior fans would not agree on what makes a good recreation, anyway, and what needed to be incorporated to modernize it while staying true to Greyhawk (just toss out the term "Dragonborn" and see what happens); and (3) new fans DON'T CARE about your past, gramps. And we want new fans. [B]B. Quality is what matters. [I]Quality writing will always attract the high-brow audience. -Chuck Tingle, perhaps.[/I][/B] When you think back about any successful installment in a movie franchise, or any successful "reboot" of a media property, one thing immediately comes to mind- what matters is the quality. It's such a banal point it should be obvious, and yet ... what matters, what always matters, and what only matters, is the quality of the product. People can (and do) discuss things like "fidelity to canon" or "fan service," and these are all good things; but whether a particular media property is reifying expectations, or subverting them, what matters is that it is ... good. People, even the hardcore-iest of the hardcore fans, forgive a multitude of sins when something is good, whereas it's a lot harder to enjoy if it's bad. More simply- making something high quality is the top priority; fan service should always be the secondary consideration. [B]C. Make it relevant and make it different. [/B] [I][B]See, you can't rewrite, 'cause to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. -Britney Spears, possibly.[/B][/I] The most important thing about any new version of Greyhawk would be that it has some type of relevance to people today. To use a (perhaps trite) example, elements of the reboot of BSG incorporated concepts from the then-current war on terror to give it some added pathos for current viewers. From that perspective, any person looking to re-do or re-launch Greyhawk would be best served looking at those elements from the past that would differentiate Greyhawk from other settings and make it a distinctive and appealing setting for some gamers. With this is mind, I would argue for the following aspects of Greyhawk that should be brought forward and accentuated, and very much believe that a Greyhawk that more closely resembles a "Game of Thrones" type setting, with darkness, war, and a political backdrop would be very successful! [B]1. The Dying of the Light.[/B] The Flanaess was once a place of great civilizations. Empires of unimaginable power and magic ruled the land, until they crumbled into dust, victims of their own hubris. Today, the great powers are corrupted from within (the Great Kingdom) or teetering on the edge; a few proud city-states, such as Onnwal, Greyhawk, and Dyvers welcoming traders from far and wide, but much of the land is empty and desolate, with villages and hommlets scraping by meager existences, and the presence of raiding parties a constant threat. The greatest powers lie within tombs, hidden away in forgotten ruins and wrecked cities covered by jungle, long forgotten. [B]2. Politics is a zero-sum game.[/B] The nations of the Flanaess are in constant competition with each other. There are theocracies and bandit kingdoms, free cities and associations of free yeoman; but while alliances are easily made, they are more easily broken. Most nations, even the "good" ones, are looking to expand, and all of them are terrified of any new rising power. [B]3. There is real evil, and it's winning.[/B] While the good and neutral nations mostly squabble amongst themselves, real evil walk the world and cooperates in their plans. At least ... for now. Iuz. The Great Kingdom. And the Scarlet Brotherhood. That's just an opening. But, in the end, pushing Greyhawk as a setting that really accentuates these differences would make it more interesting for a new set of gamers to play. So - what's your pitch? How would you reboot Greyhawk? [/QUOTE]
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