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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4163057" data-attributes="member: 710">The ring of Evasion is a nice one. I didn't know that.The Bugbear seemed like a very good tank to me, actually, thanks to a nice natural armor bonus. I don't think a Fighter would have had a better bonus (in fact, I remember writing up a heavy defensive fighter for 17th level, and he had a similar AC).The Duskblade can also tank, if absolutely necessary, thanks to Combat Expertise, but even his AC wasn't enough.I don't know the usual tactics, since I missed too many sessions in that campaign.But I suppose they look something like this: Rogues get into flanking positions or tumbling through enemy squares to get sneak attack damage (not that the Bugbear needed that, he only has something like 3d6, and is using a keen falchion). The Duskblade typically approached with Combat Expertise up, and then used spells like scorching ray or vampiric touch together with his attack. He has little problems with Spell Resistance this way. He often uses swift fly or quick-casted dimension doors to move in a good position.If healing is required, the Clerics step in. With Empowered, Maximized Cure LIght Wounds and the occassional Heal or Mass Heal, there is no way hit point damage can really hurt us. Unless the enemy needs only one round to kill a character, even with all kinds of defensive magic and armor up. Or the enemy has an uncounterable attack form, like, say, 2d6 points of Con drain that nothing can heal during a combat.But the typical tactic didn't work so well here, since everybody needed to fly to get to the Dragon, and we couldn't approach easily with all spells ready. What we needed was something that could survive a full attack or someone that could one-shot kill the Dragon. And I am not convinced such a character exists.Except. I think I see one possible strategy: Find someone with Forcecage. I think that would have stopped the Dragon totally. (No Save, No SR, right?)Well, we're already using the Savage Tides AP (with another DM), and we are using another set of suboptimal classes there. Warlock, Dragon Shaman, Druid and Rogue. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />(But I think we got a big benefit - we're using 28 point buy and get an extra feat! Woot!)We noticed that we can go on basically forever, unless we hit a real powerful enemy, when we lack any ability to overcome our "average" offensive values. On a good day, a 10th level Warlock deals 5d6 points of damage. On a bad day, he deals 5d6 points of damage. If he really tries hard, he deals 5d6 points of damage. If he acts reluctantly and conserves his powers, he deals 5d6 points of damage. (I think you get the pattern <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )I suppose that's a good example why the 4E design team combined at will, per encounter and daily abilities for all classes...I think we could change a lot if we just played the Cleric/Fighter/Rogue/Wizard set-up. But we played that already a lot in 3E, and what's the point of all the classes if we only play these four? I mean, if we'll go to 4E, I suspect we will also use these four classes, but I really hope that after 4-8 years, we will be allowed to break from that pattern without sucking or extreme cheese-cake. But I admit, I won't count on it.</blockquote>

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