Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Grim Hollow Campaign Guide - 3rd Party Review
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sparky McDibben" data-source="post: 9137042" data-attributes="member: 7041430"><p>I would certainly agree that we need to be careful with our coding, but my point was not "tropes bad." My point was that by taking real-life inspiration for something, you also need to be cognizant of how that source material interacted with and rose out of its environment. Otherwise, the result will feel flat, one-dimensional, and uninteresting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree. While you can still have no/low magic in 5E (see <em>Adventures in Middle Earth </em>or <em>Nations and Cannons</em>), it tends to leave a big friggin' hole in D&D when you do so. So you want to use a light touch when you're "pruning" player options. But for me, if you're going to take out gods, you have to impact clerics in some way. Full stop. Otherwise, you're just reskinning the gods as angels. </p><p></p><p>Alright, friends, we're on to Chapter 11: A GM's Guide to Dark Fantasy. YEAAAAAAAH buddy!!! I've been really excited to hit this part, because I love me some DM tools! So let's crack this bad boy and see what we're working with!!!</p><p></p><p>First up, we're talking about the themes of dark fantasy: grimdark, horror, dark fairy tales, and sword and sorcery. I already don't like grimdark, and horror is difficult to land in 5E. Dark fairy tales and sword and sorcery, though, I am <em>huge</em> fans of, so rock on! These sections have some good outlines of tropes, narrative structure, etc. for these themes. My only request here would have been to give examples of the kinds of media the writers think are grade-A examples of each theme. </p><p></p><p>Next up we have three methods of conflict introduction: character, party, and regional conflicts. These are fine, if a bit basic. There's also a section on leveling up, which mostly focuses on either milestone or goal-oriented level ups. Again, fine, but basic. After that, there's a section on scaling up encounter difficulty (use higher CR monsters, use waves of monsters, use terrain, etc.). Fine, but basic. Finally, we get to a section where it breaks down resting, recommending a 1 hour "quick rest" that lets PCs expend HD but not regain any short-rest related abilities, and 8 hour short rest, and a 3 day long rest. Personally, I think that's too punishing and you're going to get risk-averse players who just "nope" out of the adventure. But it clearly has worked with these folks, so give it a shot!</p><p></p><p>We also get legendary actions by rough enemy type. So the book lists three legendary actions you can throw on a bruiser, then three legendary actions you can throw on a skirmisher, etc. These are also good, and just having them bundled like this can help out new DMs quite a bit. Personally, I would have preferred a table of interesting effects and possible justifications. So having an effect where anyone casting a spell takes 2d6 necrotic damage could be "spell rot," or "the Dark Mother's Gaze," or "the ghostly assaults of undead angels," and so on. </p><p></p><p>After that, we get Grievous Wounds (which last until a long rest), and Permanent Wounds (which last until you get hit with <em>regenerate</em>). Grievous wounds happen when someone is dropped to 0 hit points - the rest is a 2d6 table, modified down by the number of Grievous Wounds the character is currently suffering from. If you get a 2 or lower, you gain a Permanent Wound. There are some interesting Grievous Wounds, although mostly they just give you a condition (dazed, bleeding, -1 death save, etc). </p><p></p><p>Permanent Wounds have a 1-in-6 chance of just killing you outright. That kind of sucks - I'm already rolling for a Permanent Wound, so I'm at zero hit points already. It's just kind of a poop cherry on top of a crap sundae. Other options include losing an eye or a limb, or being hideously scarred. All of these have mechanical impacts, which are great, but leave me wanting more. </p><p></p><p>After that, we get magic items, which are a little underwhelming (most of them are potions) - these would have been a fantastic place to show off cursed or "devil's bargain" items that can change your character. </p><p></p><p>Finally, we get four diseases, including magical clap and magical smallpox. Yes, magical gonorrhea is on here. Icky and weird, but you do you, dev team!</p><p></p><p>Now that we've gone through this, let's take a step back. What I'm not seeing are any game aids for me to help create fun adventures. Seriously, go compare this section to something like <em>Stars Without Number,</em> and it's day and night. I want random name generators by region, tables that help me create cults, thieves bands, hag sisterhoods, vampiric cabals, and more! I want adventure seeds that <em>feel</em> like they belong only in Etharis. I want advice on converting or running official D&D campaigns into Etharis: What adventures do you recommend? Where should I put them in this world? Any advice on making official D&D content <em>feel</em> like dark fantasy? </p><p></p><p>As for what's here, the next-level stuff is skipped. The best advice you've got for scaling up monster difficulty has been repeated <em>ad nauseam</em> on YouTube. Give me some real folkloric weaknesses ("vulnerable to arrows made of mistletoe," "flees the cry of a rooster," "can be tricked by challenging it to a riddle game"). These give my players ways to interact with a monster outside of its hit points and Armor Class. </p><p></p><p>All of this, by the by, would have been a great opportunity to advertise their other products, too. And....nada. Zip. Bupkis. Oy veh. </p><p></p><p>Ultimately I rate these a high 6, low 7 out of 10. Call it 6.75. It's more helpful than not, but it doesn't do much to help me. </p><p></p><p>Alright, onto Chapter 12: Fables of Etharis! </p><p></p><p>This section is comprised of three short adventures:</p><p></p><p>1) Tavern of the Lost (6th level characters) - a delightful adventure that puts the PCs in an extradimensional trap as they flee werewolves. Solid exploration and roleplay elements, with combat only coming in toward the end. A little heavy-handed on the linearity, but justified in the narrative, so it doesn't feel railroad-y.</p><p>2) Facets of Darkness (no level listed) - an investigation with a weak hook, <a href="https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/47480/roleplaying-games/review-descent-into-avernus" target="_blank">cargo cult</a> NPCs that say, "Go here, do this," and when the party does, they are rewarded with another NPC that says "Go here, do this." No thanks.</p><p>3) The Blood Knight and the Five Relics (no level listed) - an investigation clearly inspired by <em>Legend of Sleepy Hollow</em>, but has interesting non-linear investigation elements, fun puzzle-solving, and some light combat. Well done.</p><p></p><p>And that's it for those chapters! The last little bit is a chapter on Curse Monsters (the last stage of those curses I mentioned way back at the beginning is to turn people into these Curse Monsters). These guys are mid-to-high CR monsters, and each one has some real fun and interesting quirks. Solidly done work, no notes.</p><p></p><p>So, like I said at the beginning, it's complicated. There's more good than bad in the book in toto, but the dross means it's a bit of a slog. Personally, I'd rate the entire book at a 6.5 / 10 for me. It's a useful buy for folks who want a foundation to build on, but there's a lot of lifting left to do. </p><p></p><p>Should you buy it?</p><p></p><p>I would recommend you buy this product if you are:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A major fan of dark fantasy themes and want to bring them to your tabletop game</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Interested in mining folkloric elements to introduce to your tabletop game</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Interested in seeing how transitions into monstrous creatures might be effected at the table</li> </ul><p>I would hold (wait for the price to come down) if you are:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Interested in the lore of Etharis</li> </ul><p>I would not buy this product if you aren't already interested in dark fantasy or its media touchstones.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sparky McDibben, post: 9137042, member: 7041430"] I would certainly agree that we need to be careful with our coding, but my point was not "tropes bad." My point was that by taking real-life inspiration for something, you also need to be cognizant of how that source material interacted with and rose out of its environment. Otherwise, the result will feel flat, one-dimensional, and uninteresting. I agree. While you can still have no/low magic in 5E (see [I]Adventures in Middle Earth [/I]or [I]Nations and Cannons[/I]), it tends to leave a big friggin' hole in D&D when you do so. So you want to use a light touch when you're "pruning" player options. But for me, if you're going to take out gods, you have to impact clerics in some way. Full stop. Otherwise, you're just reskinning the gods as angels. Alright, friends, we're on to Chapter 11: A GM's Guide to Dark Fantasy. YEAAAAAAAH buddy!!! I've been really excited to hit this part, because I love me some DM tools! So let's crack this bad boy and see what we're working with!!! First up, we're talking about the themes of dark fantasy: grimdark, horror, dark fairy tales, and sword and sorcery. I already don't like grimdark, and horror is difficult to land in 5E. Dark fairy tales and sword and sorcery, though, I am [I]huge[/I] fans of, so rock on! These sections have some good outlines of tropes, narrative structure, etc. for these themes. My only request here would have been to give examples of the kinds of media the writers think are grade-A examples of each theme. Next up we have three methods of conflict introduction: character, party, and regional conflicts. These are fine, if a bit basic. There's also a section on leveling up, which mostly focuses on either milestone or goal-oriented level ups. Again, fine, but basic. After that, there's a section on scaling up encounter difficulty (use higher CR monsters, use waves of monsters, use terrain, etc.). Fine, but basic. Finally, we get to a section where it breaks down resting, recommending a 1 hour "quick rest" that lets PCs expend HD but not regain any short-rest related abilities, and 8 hour short rest, and a 3 day long rest. Personally, I think that's too punishing and you're going to get risk-averse players who just "nope" out of the adventure. But it clearly has worked with these folks, so give it a shot! We also get legendary actions by rough enemy type. So the book lists three legendary actions you can throw on a bruiser, then three legendary actions you can throw on a skirmisher, etc. These are also good, and just having them bundled like this can help out new DMs quite a bit. Personally, I would have preferred a table of interesting effects and possible justifications. So having an effect where anyone casting a spell takes 2d6 necrotic damage could be "spell rot," or "the Dark Mother's Gaze," or "the ghostly assaults of undead angels," and so on. After that, we get Grievous Wounds (which last until a long rest), and Permanent Wounds (which last until you get hit with [I]regenerate[/I]). Grievous wounds happen when someone is dropped to 0 hit points - the rest is a 2d6 table, modified down by the number of Grievous Wounds the character is currently suffering from. If you get a 2 or lower, you gain a Permanent Wound. There are some interesting Grievous Wounds, although mostly they just give you a condition (dazed, bleeding, -1 death save, etc). Permanent Wounds have a 1-in-6 chance of just killing you outright. That kind of sucks - I'm already rolling for a Permanent Wound, so I'm at zero hit points already. It's just kind of a poop cherry on top of a crap sundae. Other options include losing an eye or a limb, or being hideously scarred. All of these have mechanical impacts, which are great, but leave me wanting more. After that, we get magic items, which are a little underwhelming (most of them are potions) - these would have been a fantastic place to show off cursed or "devil's bargain" items that can change your character. Finally, we get four diseases, including magical clap and magical smallpox. Yes, magical gonorrhea is on here. Icky and weird, but you do you, dev team! Now that we've gone through this, let's take a step back. What I'm not seeing are any game aids for me to help create fun adventures. Seriously, go compare this section to something like [I]Stars Without Number,[/I] and it's day and night. I want random name generators by region, tables that help me create cults, thieves bands, hag sisterhoods, vampiric cabals, and more! I want adventure seeds that [I]feel[/I] like they belong only in Etharis. I want advice on converting or running official D&D campaigns into Etharis: What adventures do you recommend? Where should I put them in this world? Any advice on making official D&D content [I]feel[/I] like dark fantasy? As for what's here, the next-level stuff is skipped. The best advice you've got for scaling up monster difficulty has been repeated [I]ad nauseam[/I] on YouTube. Give me some real folkloric weaknesses ("vulnerable to arrows made of mistletoe," "flees the cry of a rooster," "can be tricked by challenging it to a riddle game"). These give my players ways to interact with a monster outside of its hit points and Armor Class. All of this, by the by, would have been a great opportunity to advertise their other products, too. And....nada. Zip. Bupkis. Oy veh. Ultimately I rate these a high 6, low 7 out of 10. Call it 6.75. It's more helpful than not, but it doesn't do much to help me. Alright, onto Chapter 12: Fables of Etharis! This section is comprised of three short adventures: 1) Tavern of the Lost (6th level characters) - a delightful adventure that puts the PCs in an extradimensional trap as they flee werewolves. Solid exploration and roleplay elements, with combat only coming in toward the end. A little heavy-handed on the linearity, but justified in the narrative, so it doesn't feel railroad-y. 2) Facets of Darkness (no level listed) - an investigation with a weak hook, [URL='https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/47480/roleplaying-games/review-descent-into-avernus']cargo cult[/URL] NPCs that say, "Go here, do this," and when the party does, they are rewarded with another NPC that says "Go here, do this." No thanks. 3) The Blood Knight and the Five Relics (no level listed) - an investigation clearly inspired by [I]Legend of Sleepy Hollow[/I], but has interesting non-linear investigation elements, fun puzzle-solving, and some light combat. Well done. And that's it for those chapters! The last little bit is a chapter on Curse Monsters (the last stage of those curses I mentioned way back at the beginning is to turn people into these Curse Monsters). These guys are mid-to-high CR monsters, and each one has some real fun and interesting quirks. Solidly done work, no notes. So, like I said at the beginning, it's complicated. There's more good than bad in the book in toto, but the dross means it's a bit of a slog. Personally, I'd rate the entire book at a 6.5 / 10 for me. It's a useful buy for folks who want a foundation to build on, but there's a lot of lifting left to do. Should you buy it? I would recommend you buy this product if you are: [LIST] [*]A major fan of dark fantasy themes and want to bring them to your tabletop game [*]Interested in mining folkloric elements to introduce to your tabletop game [*]Interested in seeing how transitions into monstrous creatures might be effected at the table [/LIST] I would hold (wait for the price to come down) if you are: [LIST] [*]Interested in the lore of Etharis [/LIST] I would not buy this product if you aren't already interested in dark fantasy or its media touchstones. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Grim Hollow Campaign Guide - 3rd Party Review
Top