Grim Tales: Wild Empathy

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Seems like every few weeks, I have a question about this toolkit.

This week:

Why is Wild Empathy a Charismatic talent?

I'm statting up some "Druid" type nature-worshippers for an upcoming campaign and I wanted them to all, pretty much, take Wild Empathy as a talent. I see these fellows as Ranger/Druid types. They'll be living on the floor of a prehistoric forest, living with and fighting off mega-fauna.

With WE as THE only Charismatic talent I can see them needing they'll either end up with a ton of abilities they don't need or end up with Wild Empathy with a really low bonus.

I know I can always house rule it, but I was just wondering what the reasoning behind linking Wild Empathy so closely with Charismatic levels was?

--fje

 

[BryonD]

It is about imposing your will on others.
Which by D20 definitions is flatly in the realm of Charisma.

Obviously the D&D approach gives this CHR ability to WIS focused classes. But the GT/D20M aptitude approach doesn't really fit that as well.
If other classes can sway the mood of others as well as a charismatic, then what is the point of the charismatic?

That said, if you really want to mimic the druid type a feat wouldn't exactly break the game.
Something like
Wilderness Wisdom
Prereq: Wild Empathy Talent
Bonus: Your Dedicated Hero Levels stack with your Charismatic Hero Levels for purposes of the Wild Empathy Talent.

Off the top of my head I'd probably still limit the Dedicated level credit to no greater than the CHR level. (Ded5/Chr2 with CHR14 gets a total of +6)

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Hrm. Then why is Empathy a Dedicated talent?

Empathy provides a bonus to the Diplomacy skill, while "Wild Empathy" not only has "Empathy" in the name, but states that it functions "just like the Diplomacy" skill.

I guess that's where my problem lies. I'm going to house rule it for my own game, I doubt any PCs are going to even end up wanting to take it, and if one does and it breaks I'll deal with it then. Just seems sort of odd that a talent based OFF of a Dedicated talent is then based PURELY in the Charismatic class from there on out. If the Diplomacy skill and all other Interaction skills are ONLY used by the Charismatic class, then Empathy talent seems to be in the wrong class list.

---fje

 

[BryonD]

Hrm. Then why is Empathy a Dedicated talent?
---fje

For the same reason Sense Motive is a Wisdom based skill.

In D20 terms Wisdom has more to do with information coming from the world to you and how well you process it (spot, listen, sense motive, will saves, in general ability to accumulate and control outside influence)

Charisma is all about information going from you to the outside world.

Empathy is about making more out of the data coming in than a typical person would be able to. It is completely reasonable that being able to do this would give one some edge in turning around and doing a better job of influencing the world around you. But the process still hinges on dealing with input and thus is a Wisdom thing.

The mirror image of this is Gather Info, which is all about going out and influencing the world around you so that data is provided to you in a manner that a typical person could easily interpret.

I'm not at all saying you are making a mistake to house rule this how ever you want.

But I am saying that in terms of doing it by the basic concepts of D20, Wulf nailed it.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

As far as core concept, I guess the argument works.

Perhaps if there were other "wilderness" type aspects to be located within the Charismatic class. If I could build these wilderness types with dual Dedicated/Charismatic levels and feel like Charismatic levels had anything to add beyond increased Wild Empathy rolls.

Actually, looking back through my Grim Tales book, Wild Empathy is an ADVANCED Charismatic Talent, meaning you have to have 3 levels of Charismatic to access it. So Wild Empathy is available earliest as Ded1/Cha3 ...

I can't really think of any character concepts that would need what the Charismatic class offers in conjunction with Wild Empathy, especially not making Charismatic your major class.

--fje

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'll also readily admit that Wild Empathy was a late addition. I wasn't going to include it at all.

At any rate, due to the low magic (in this case read: low mysticism) focus of the entire work, I don't think it's unreasonable for Wild Empathy to appear late in a character's career, when 3 levels of Charismatic may well be lost alongside 10 or more levels of Dedicated, if that's your thing.

There are some good reasons to multi-class Dedicated and Charismatic... Good synergies in there with some talents/feats. Not going to point out the min-max possibilities, but some of them border on broken.

Wulf

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Heh. Well, I'm not trying to break anything.

I'm going to tweak stuff, anyway. My setting is going to be a little more high-magic than the Grim Tales standard.

Technomagical, actually. I'm working on my core concept: "Airships ... and Sky Pirates!!"

I had, I felt, two choices ... Blimps and Magical Airships. I'm working with Magical Airships.

No spellcasting, though, so it's low magic in that way.

--fje

 

[sinmissing]

(sidetrack, not hijack ;p)
If you aren't adverse to some anime . . . .
The local video store owner cleaned off his promo shelf, and gave me a few episodes from the following series.

http://www.lastexiledvd.com/

I've been chewing on Airships & Sky Pirates ideas ever since.

I also got a hold of Sweet Chariot, which is a Hard SF world which offers some excellent ideas and a great reason why airships would be so common - The planet has a high amount of Argon, which settles in the lower elevations of the planet, making the mountainous regions into islands separated by dangerous atmospheres. (Not absolutely certain about how realistic this is, but it grooves with my armchair physicists)

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=752&

 

[GlassJaw]

Technomagical

Have you looked at Steam & Steel by EN Publishing? I think that would really fit what you are trying to do. It's a great pdf.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Haven't looked into Steam And Steel yet.

Instead of Argon, I'm contemplating megafauna and other natural dangers. Predatory animals in the seas readily able to sink ships, bear-cognates the size of semi trucks, horrific carniverous plants.

I picture airship fishing boats floating OVER the seas, hauling up fish and hauling tail before the larger predators surface and try to bring them down. Hunting "bear" in the clearings with rifles and harpoons from on high. Etc.

--fje