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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6622322" data-attributes="member: 20323">[MENTION=6777696]redrick[/MENTION]Good topic <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Sounds like a fun time was had by all!I have some specific thoughts about the 3 concerns you raise (retreat of PCs, combat grind, and unconsciousness lacking punch), but first my friendly word of advice:Stop pussy-footing with running your monsters. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil    :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" /> (That is meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, seeing as you threw a super deadly encounter at them <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ) When it makes sense for them to go for the kill, then go for the kill hard. Rather than think of the "gentleman's agreement" being monsters don't go for the kill, I think of it as just the reverse. I respect my players enough to throw real challenges their way, and when appropriate for the story/NPC/monster, sometimes the opposition is going to be out to kill. Not all the time, but when it makes sense.Ok, now more specific tips...Retreat of PCsPlayers hate to retreat unless they have a very good reason (beyond even self-preservation). If you want to get them to even consider it, try one of these tricks:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Have a group of monsters that routinely pull off retreats followed up by guerilla raids and ambushes afterward. Show the players that it's a viable strategy.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Create a lull in the fighting when a battle is sorely going against PCs where an enemy specifically offers them an honest chance to withdraw with their wounded/dead.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Have an objective to the combat that encourages retreat. This makes it feel less like failure and more like strategic choice. For example, getting a PC convincingly captured and taken behind enemy lines to infiltrate a target. Another example: An ally several hundred yards away sounds a horn calling on the PCs aid or to rally in the keep. Another example: The PCs have a magic object or piece of intelligence they can't let the enemies get their hands on.</li> </ul>Combat grindI've noticed this in challenging fights with lots of monsters. Some tricks I use to minimize grind:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When I anticipate a long fight, design "scene changers" that I can introduce every couple rounds to keep things fresh. Sometimes I couple these with the ideas in the DMG about allowing players to recharge certain abilities at a dramatic moment; usually I try to frame this as something overtly magical or as a lull in the fighting where enemies circle one another or seek cover.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make use of the morale rules in the DMG.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Come up with goals for the PCs in such encounters besides "kill all monsters." Sometimes that is fun, but "kill all monsters" works best as a goal for either small skirmishes or for rare set piece battles. Most fights should have other goals that if accomplished can signal an end to the fight.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Occasionally introduce terrain that the PCs or monsters can interact with to wreck havoc on their foes.</li> </ul>Unconsciousness Lacking PunchWhile to some extent this depends on the party's availability of healing, 5e does suffer a bit of the "revolving door of death" problem. Some things I've been trying out...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use injury rules in DMG for when a PC fails a death save. This puts a stop to the "oh, we have plenty of time to save the thief who is bleeding out, don't worry."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sometimes have a hostile environment that being unconscious in is really not good. For example, a foot of water on the floor, grasping hands dragging unconscious people into caverns, a whispering voice infiltrating the minds of incapacitated people driving them mad, a death aura siphoning off life force making death saves disadvantagred, etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When a PC falls unconscious, have smart monsters adapt their strategy to focus on the party's weak point. This should create urgency to getting that PC back up. For example, if the rogue goes down, the monsters should be less cautious about being flanked and should advance. If the cleric can get thru the monster's lines to the rogue, now the rogue and cleric are on the other side of the monsters from the rest of the PCs and are likely to be swarmed.</li> </ul>Caveat: If you run a game where PC death doesn't really happen, these guidelines probably won't apply to your group.</blockquote>

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