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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5179643" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Is it? Always? Hmmm. Is that armchair of yours comfortable? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, I knew that the encounter would become longer. I was expecting that. The encounter was supposed to be seriously challenging and something that "worried the players" because they just couldn't drop kick the encounter in 6 or fewer rounds like they do the vast majority of encounters. The duration of the encounter wasn't what was grindy, what was grindy was the repetitiveness of the encounter. The dragons quickly ran out of Encounter powers and did the same old attacks through most of the encounter. The PCs went through their repetoire of powers and then started using the same old At Will powers over and over. The first 6 rounds were interesting, but the latter rounds became a bore as players were no longer pulling out Dailies and were mostly out of Encounters. The game system is not designed to handle longer duration encounters, regardless of what causes it (Healing, many foes Stunned, Insubstantial, whatever). If the encounter goes over 8 rounds, it tends to become a slugfest. zzzzzzz</p><p></p><p></p><p>My other issue with that encounter is that the game system is not well designed to handle monsters that heal because the monsters have too many hit points to begin with. </p><p></p><p>Most standard monsters have ~20 plus 7 to 9 hit points per level.</p><p></p><p>PCs have ~20+ plus 4 to 7 hit points per level. It only takes a few levels before monsters consistently have more hit points than PCs.</p><p></p><p>So even if I would have added the Cleric template to a Standard monster instead of a Solo monster and threw a standard in with the solo, it wouldn't matter too much. When PCs are healing ~40 points at level 16 per heal, standard monsters would be healing ~50, elites would be healing ~90, and solos would be healing ~200.</p><p></p><p>The game system really doesn't take into account monster healing, but it should.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, it cannot be game mechanics. It cannot be Stun or Insubstantial or the bookeeping of keeping track of 20+ conditions on a dozen PCs and NPCs simultaneously. A person had to screw up. Either the DM, or the players, or both. Yup. Every time.</p><p></p><p>Human error. Those players are playing the game wrong. Uh huh.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5179643, member: 2011"] Is it? Always? Hmmm. Is that armchair of yours comfortable? :lol: Actually, I knew that the encounter would become longer. I was expecting that. The encounter was supposed to be seriously challenging and something that "worried the players" because they just couldn't drop kick the encounter in 6 or fewer rounds like they do the vast majority of encounters. The duration of the encounter wasn't what was grindy, what was grindy was the repetitiveness of the encounter. The dragons quickly ran out of Encounter powers and did the same old attacks through most of the encounter. The PCs went through their repetoire of powers and then started using the same old At Will powers over and over. The first 6 rounds were interesting, but the latter rounds became a bore as players were no longer pulling out Dailies and were mostly out of Encounters. The game system is not designed to handle longer duration encounters, regardless of what causes it (Healing, many foes Stunned, Insubstantial, whatever). If the encounter goes over 8 rounds, it tends to become a slugfest. zzzzzzz My other issue with that encounter is that the game system is not well designed to handle monsters that heal because the monsters have too many hit points to begin with. Most standard monsters have ~20 plus 7 to 9 hit points per level. PCs have ~20+ plus 4 to 7 hit points per level. It only takes a few levels before monsters consistently have more hit points than PCs. So even if I would have added the Cleric template to a Standard monster instead of a Solo monster and threw a standard in with the solo, it wouldn't matter too much. When PCs are healing ~40 points at level 16 per heal, standard monsters would be healing ~50, elites would be healing ~90, and solos would be healing ~200. The game system really doesn't take into account monster healing, but it should. Yeah, it cannot be game mechanics. It cannot be Stun or Insubstantial or the bookeeping of keeping track of 20+ conditions on a dozen PCs and NPCs simultaneously. A person had to screw up. Either the DM, or the players, or both. Yup. Every time. Human error. Those players are playing the game wrong. Uh huh. [/QUOTE]
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