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<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5179884" data-attributes="member: 61155"><p>Well, I think the argument is that it is a different type of complexity. In 3rd Edition, especially at high level, everyone in the party might have a dozen buff spells up with varying durations - but many would last the entire combat. In 4E, you have many more conditions that last for just one round, or just affect certain PCs, or so forth. And they might be smaller mods - a couple +1s to damage here, a -2 to attack there, a -2 Will, etc. </p><p> </p><p>Of course, I did find the older system harder to deal with (largely due to the completely time-stop when buffs did go away, along with how extensive the adjustments from buffs could be - especially with cascading math attacks like Ray of Enfeeblement.) </p><p> </p><p>I do think there is some truth to the number of conditions potentially being an issue in 4E, but it hasn't been a common occurence in my game. Even when I played a Warlord who had a ton of bonuses bouncing in and out! Of course, I specifically had some cards to let everyone track what bonuses I had given - it might have been more of a hassle without those. Or it might not have. </p><p> </p><p>As it is, I think 4E does have the potential for grind, but it isn't the default outcome of the system. And that has remained true in my experience - perhaps one combat out of every few sessions will run long, usually due to poor encounter design... letting too many of the 'potential problems' show up in the same encounter. On their own, they are good game elements that allow for a robust and flavorful game. Every now and then, they might cause an issue. For myself, I can live with that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 5179884, member: 61155"] Well, I think the argument is that it is a different type of complexity. In 3rd Edition, especially at high level, everyone in the party might have a dozen buff spells up with varying durations - but many would last the entire combat. In 4E, you have many more conditions that last for just one round, or just affect certain PCs, or so forth. And they might be smaller mods - a couple +1s to damage here, a -2 to attack there, a -2 Will, etc. Of course, I did find the older system harder to deal with (largely due to the completely time-stop when buffs did go away, along with how extensive the adjustments from buffs could be - especially with cascading math attacks like Ray of Enfeeblement.) I do think there is some truth to the number of conditions potentially being an issue in 4E, but it hasn't been a common occurence in my game. Even when I played a Warlord who had a ton of bonuses bouncing in and out! Of course, I specifically had some cards to let everyone track what bonuses I had given - it might have been more of a hassle without those. Or it might not have. As it is, I think 4E does have the potential for grind, but it isn't the default outcome of the system. And that has remained true in my experience - perhaps one combat out of every few sessions will run long, usually due to poor encounter design... letting too many of the 'potential problems' show up in the same encounter. On their own, they are good game elements that allow for a robust and flavorful game. Every now and then, they might cause an issue. For myself, I can live with that. [/QUOTE]
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