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<blockquote data-quote="Dr_Ruminahui" data-source="post: 5182470" data-attributes="member: 81104">In my 2 groups (I DM 1, and play in 1), we have a designated &quot;ring tracker&quot; - its their job to maintain the various rings (we also use soda cap rings, though we use paper clips for marks).&nbsp; If you use the same person every week, the DM doesn't need to be involved in the process at all - other than stating the effects given out and when monsters become bloodied - and it really speeds things up.&nbsp; I highly recommend it.&nbsp;That said, I do agree that tracking conditions is much more important than in previous editions, and also takes more time.&nbsp; However, I feel the game is much tighter in other areas, so my opinion is that the game isn't any grindier than previous editions, its just the tightness the overall design that makes us more aware of it.&nbsp;Also due to the tightness of the design, anything that either isn't contemplated in the rules (for example, changing how minions work) or that isn't dealt with well (giving monsters healing based on surge amounts, monsters with both insubstantial and the ability to weaken) likely has a bigger effect than it would in previous systems.&nbsp; That said, I would imagine giving trolls cleric levels (for healing and elemental resistance) in the previous would likely have had similar results.&nbsp;Perhaps the biggest game design change that might increase grind, and one mentioned by KD, is that in 4e one's ability to nova is severly decreased.&nbsp; Previously, if things began to drag, the players could typically whip out some consumable and end things with it.&nbsp; That said, for groups like mine who are hoarders and don't tend to use such things, the difference in editions is not as great as it might be for other groups.&nbsp; Additionally, encounters that grind are typically low challenge ones, so groups in all editions are less likely to use up resources ending them, which again may make this factor less important than it might otherwise appear.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dr_Ruminahui, post: 5182470, member: 81104"] In my 2 groups (I DM 1, and play in 1), we have a designated "ring tracker" - its their job to maintain the various rings (we also use soda cap rings, though we use paper clips for marks). If you use the same person every week, the DM doesn't need to be involved in the process at all - other than stating the effects given out and when monsters become bloodied - and it really speeds things up. I highly recommend it. That said, I do agree that tracking conditions is much more important than in previous editions, and also takes more time. However, I feel the game is much tighter in other areas, so my opinion is that the game isn't any grindier than previous editions, its just the tightness the overall design that makes us more aware of it. Also due to the tightness of the design, anything that either isn't contemplated in the rules (for example, changing how minions work) or that isn't dealt with well (giving monsters healing based on surge amounts, monsters with both insubstantial and the ability to weaken) likely has a bigger effect than it would in previous systems. That said, I would imagine giving trolls cleric levels (for healing and elemental resistance) in the previous would likely have had similar results. Perhaps the biggest game design change that might increase grind, and one mentioned by KD, is that in 4e one's ability to nova is severly decreased. Previously, if things began to drag, the players could typically whip out some consumable and end things with it. That said, for groups like mine who are hoarders and don't tend to use such things, the difference in editions is not as great as it might be for other groups. Additionally, encounters that grind are typically low challenge ones, so groups in all editions are less likely to use up resources ending them, which again may make this factor less important than it might otherwise appear. [/QUOTE]

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