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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 6133701" data-attributes="member: 43019">If you were semi-optimized, then you were probably facing encounters far above recommended norms. For example, two encounters worth of monsters at the same time (but not much AoE) would get you to a point where it took that long to take them out pretty easily. That's actually a good thing to happen occasionally, but if it's every combat that's a bit odd. And if it were due to lots of monsters, presumably you'd optimize for more AE negating much of the benefit.If the DM were using updated monster damage values, it's much harder to survive for 8 rounds. He might instead just be throwing _much_ higher level monsters at the group, which is one boring hammer in the toolbox, true enough.I'm used to up to L+3 working on the 2-4 equation, but I've no doubt that a L+8 could get grindy. Granted, such an encounter in every edition of D&D might be quite grindy. For example, having rolled out a 40 orc encounter, it gets quite mind numbing after the first dozen or so.</blockquote>