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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4732130" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Again, I think it is "too complex". Not overly so, but randomly picking a power when the player has 7 powers in front of him will cause game slowup.</p><p></p><p>DM: "How many powers do you have?"</p><p>Player: "Seven"</p><p>DM: Rolls. "Ok, the third power is disabled"</p><p>Player: "Ok"</p><p>Player: "Wait, third power in my list, or third one I acquired?"</p><p>DM: "Third in the list"</p><p>Player: "Ok"</p><p>Player: "No, no, wait. I have nine powers"</p><p>DM: "Arggghhhh"</p><p></p><p>This kind of thing happens when people introduce more complex type rules. Players have to start counting their powers. They have to start using bookkeeping procedures to figure out when they gain their power back, etc. This type of thing does slow the game up. At least IME. Sure, the DM could maintain a list of all of the PC's powers and randomly figure this out for the players, but that just adds more of a burden on the DM.</p><p></p><p>And, you did not mention whether the DM has to keep track of this for the monsters as well. Monster #2 lost power #4 and monster #6 lost power #1 and monster #7 lost power #2. Or, are you only going to penalize the PCs?</p><p></p><p></p><p>The game actually has simple bonus and penalty to hit rules which is why house rules should follow the 4E model. It's easy to remember -1 to hit if a little red token is on the miniature indicating bloodied (PC or NPC, it doesn't matter).</p><p></p><p>Just like it's easy to remember -2 to attacks, +2 to defense from range, and grants combat advantage if the miniature is knocked over prone.</p><p></p><p>IMO, a gritty penalty to hit is a lot "more natural from the point of the 4E core design" since penalties happen in many cases already than randomly losing a power which does not happen in 4E.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The concept of a "death spiral" is basically irrelevant. Our group also plays Star Wars and nobody complains about the Condition Track. It's just a game penalty that has to be taken into account when deciding upon actions. Just like being prone makes the PC -2 to hit.</p><p></p><p>If one weakens the PC by taking away powers, it's just a different type of "death spiral". If they lose a stronger power, it means that even if they hit with a weaker power, they still do less damage per attack. It still weakens the PC.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 4732130, member: 2011"] Again, I think it is "too complex". Not overly so, but randomly picking a power when the player has 7 powers in front of him will cause game slowup. DM: "How many powers do you have?" Player: "Seven" DM: Rolls. "Ok, the third power is disabled" Player: "Ok" Player: "Wait, third power in my list, or third one I acquired?" DM: "Third in the list" Player: "Ok" Player: "No, no, wait. I have nine powers" DM: "Arggghhhh" This kind of thing happens when people introduce more complex type rules. Players have to start counting their powers. They have to start using bookkeeping procedures to figure out when they gain their power back, etc. This type of thing does slow the game up. At least IME. Sure, the DM could maintain a list of all of the PC's powers and randomly figure this out for the players, but that just adds more of a burden on the DM. And, you did not mention whether the DM has to keep track of this for the monsters as well. Monster #2 lost power #4 and monster #6 lost power #1 and monster #7 lost power #2. Or, are you only going to penalize the PCs? The game actually has simple bonus and penalty to hit rules which is why house rules should follow the 4E model. It's easy to remember -1 to hit if a little red token is on the miniature indicating bloodied (PC or NPC, it doesn't matter). Just like it's easy to remember -2 to attacks, +2 to defense from range, and grants combat advantage if the miniature is knocked over prone. IMO, a gritty penalty to hit is a lot "more natural from the point of the 4E core design" since penalties happen in many cases already than randomly losing a power which does not happen in 4E. The concept of a "death spiral" is basically irrelevant. Our group also plays Star Wars and nobody complains about the Condition Track. It's just a game penalty that has to be taken into account when deciding upon actions. Just like being prone makes the PC -2 to hit. If one weakens the PC by taking away powers, it's just a different type of "death spiral". If they lose a stronger power, it means that even if they hit with a weaker power, they still do less damage per attack. It still weakens the PC. [/QUOTE]
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