Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Grognard's First Take On 4e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Scribble" data-source="post: 4238698" data-attributes="member: 23977"><p>On the point of GURPS but not GURPS...</p><p></p><p>Remember the WOTC mathematician's gleemax post? He talks about the failures that yu find in point buy? (Where even though you have a bazillion options available there really ends up only being one or two "good" builds... everything else is sub optimal.)</p><p></p><p>I think 4e took the best of both worlds. The good parts of point buy, mixed weith the good parts of class system. 3e started to do this, but didn't find the right balance.</p><p></p><p>Point buy allows an amazing amount of options and characters, yet has the problem of really there are only a few builds that are "good." people end up playing the same role.</p><p></p><p>Classes give each character a defined role, but end up being too restrictive.</p><p></p><p>You want characters that are customizable, but if you go too far, you end up just giving people a bunch of different options that are a filter for making one character. So the best bet? Mix the two options. Give them a defined role, but with the ability to wiggle that role a bit.</p><p></p><p>In 3e they introduced character customization through feats. People liked this. You could still play a "class" but at the same time customize it to make it different. Feats "failed" in a couple of ways, however.</p><p></p><p>1. The prerequisite/chain thing. Essentially once you took a feat you were locked into that progression. (unless you didn't mind a suboptimal character.) So really it wasn't so much a a customized character, as it was a class with several different "sub" classes based on feats. </p><p></p><p></p><p>2. They were confused about what they were. Should I be a power for a certain class or should I be something everyone can take. I know, I'll be open to everyone, but really be only useful to a certain class. </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I like the 4e solution and think it works well. </p><p></p><p>Powers seem to be doing what feats wanted to; make each class customizable, yet still keep them within the "feel" of the class role. A fighter still fights, but in a way the player envisions.</p><p></p><p>Powers aren't locked into a chain, so theoretically you could bounce around and make some crazy combos without "ruining" the class. </p><p></p><p>Powers make no claim that they are open to everyone. A fighter takes fighter powers, a ranger takes ranger powers. Again allowing for customization, but still defining a class.</p><p></p><p>My fear wuith the pwoers, is that they might start to subconciously/unconciously start designing powers that "stack."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scribble, post: 4238698, member: 23977"] On the point of GURPS but not GURPS... Remember the WOTC mathematician's gleemax post? He talks about the failures that yu find in point buy? (Where even though you have a bazillion options available there really ends up only being one or two "good" builds... everything else is sub optimal.) I think 4e took the best of both worlds. The good parts of point buy, mixed weith the good parts of class system. 3e started to do this, but didn't find the right balance. Point buy allows an amazing amount of options and characters, yet has the problem of really there are only a few builds that are "good." people end up playing the same role. Classes give each character a defined role, but end up being too restrictive. You want characters that are customizable, but if you go too far, you end up just giving people a bunch of different options that are a filter for making one character. So the best bet? Mix the two options. Give them a defined role, but with the ability to wiggle that role a bit. In 3e they introduced character customization through feats. People liked this. You could still play a "class" but at the same time customize it to make it different. Feats "failed" in a couple of ways, however. 1. The prerequisite/chain thing. Essentially once you took a feat you were locked into that progression. (unless you didn't mind a suboptimal character.) So really it wasn't so much a a customized character, as it was a class with several different "sub" classes based on feats. 2. They were confused about what they were. Should I be a power for a certain class or should I be something everyone can take. I know, I'll be open to everyone, but really be only useful to a certain class. I like the 4e solution and think it works well. Powers seem to be doing what feats wanted to; make each class customizable, yet still keep them within the "feel" of the class role. A fighter still fights, but in a way the player envisions. Powers aren't locked into a chain, so theoretically you could bounce around and make some crazy combos without "ruining" the class. Powers make no claim that they are open to everyone. A fighter takes fighter powers, a ranger takes ranger powers. Again allowing for customization, but still defining a class. My fear wuith the pwoers, is that they might start to subconciously/unconciously start designing powers that "stack." [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Grognard's First Take On 4e
Top