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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4238701" data-attributes="member: 710">I* always thought of the magical item system in 3E was like a latched on point-buy system to a level based system. 4E seems to do it more the other way around. I have come to the conclusion that "It's not D&D" or "still feels like D&D" has little meaning without knowing the persons definition of what constitutes D&D. There is universal, objective truth of what D&D is (if there is, we'd certainly have to ask diaglo). There are a lot of common elements that can be part of D&D, and a subset of them must be part of it, but the subset is not exhaustive enough to describe something that can uniquely describe D&D.The strongest identifier for something being D&D is the label on the cover, which off course is not a satisfying solution. It's a necessary element (at least it was, until Pathfinder came around, but that at least still is just one D&D edition on steroids)  but it's not sufficient. I have no experience with AD&D, OD&D, BECMI  or the Rules Cyclopedia or what ever else of rules were used to define D&D. D&D started with 3E for me. I would probably not even bother to check out the older systems, since everything I hear about them make them look like inferior systems.**). And for all intents and purposes, D&D 4 still looks like D&D to me. Asking an avid AD&D fan to use my definition of D&D to determine whether 4E is still D&D is asking a bit too much. I am actually hard pressed to formulate my own definition of D&D. Maybe something along this:- Pseudomedieval Fantasy- A phletora of creatures and monsters from myths and folklore, plus an assortment of D&D-specific monsters (Beholders, Mind Flayers, many-colored Dragons)- Dwarves, Elves, Humans, Halflings.- Main archetypes are Fighter, Cleric, Wizard and Rogue- Rules allows for complex tactical combat- Mechanics focusing on dungeon exploration and fighting monsters.*) rather: Other smart minds made me understand this. I believe it was actually Monte Cook that wrote that in a blog where I read it first...**) Yet, for some reasons, these games could inspire thousands of roleplayers, and (if I can trust the "Is D&D 4E retro" contained some interesting design aspects or "gameplay feeling".)</blockquote>

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