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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primal" data-source="post: 4244474" data-attributes="member: 30678">3E managed to implement *some* level of simulationism, but I agree that there are many systems which do it far better (see my reply above). Again, I never claimed that D&D has done it *well*, but IMO 3E does it better than 4E. Now, that is not inherently a bad thing -- as Keith Baker noted on the WoTC boards, 4E may not be a "better" system for simulationist-minded groups. Yet I agree with him that it *is* D&D and for gamers who do not mind about lesser degree of simulationism it may work far better than 3E ever did.You're correct that (A)D&D combat was very abstract in nature (e.g. combat rounds lasted a minute and consisted of several attacks, ripostes, parries, dodges, etc.), yet 3E -- as I've noted -- added more simulationist aspects to it. It never achieved "realism", though.It did in AD&D, as I mentioned above, although it felt odd when you suprised and backstabbed a guard, for example... you still fought with him for a minute and yet he didn't have the chance to raise alarm! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />So that's probably the reason why 3E rounds were "shortened" to represent a smaller time scale and fewer actions.Any fighter or paladin could also become a master tactician and/or a drill sergeant with full understanding and command of movement on the field. Yet they can't grant extra actions to their allies or control their movements. Tripping... in 3E, at least my scrawny wizard or destrous rogue could *try* to trip his opponents, although it wasn't probably very wise under most circumstances. Now, taking Improved Trip represented the training, and any sort of mechanical "abuse" seemed to disappear when you made it a full-round action. Oh, there's some realism in 3E, although it's not actually a simulationist system (as I've stated above). And I think there's much more abstraction to 4E combat, since it's quite clear that they've stepped away (and even admitted doing so) from any level of simulationism 3E achieved.</blockquote>

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