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<blockquote data-quote="Mycanid" data-source="post: 3025924" data-attributes="member: 40370">Rounser ... wow! A fast reply to the post! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Whether or no the backstory in the game is &quot;irrelevant&quot; to what takes place during the game itself is hard to label. Different players will come across different things. DOn't get me wrong, though! I understand that such &quot;exposition&quot; as you put it CAN be a matter of self-indulgence on the part of the adventure writer, but sometimes it's those extra details that help make the adventure more believable and &quot;matter&quot; more to the player. In other words backstory IS important - what's not is &quot;too much&quot; or &quot;irrelevent&quot; material. But who is to judge this? Most likely the play itself, which can, of course differ in the hands of a DM who is either incompetant or having a bad night or dealing with players who are having a bad night, and the list goes on.I would posit that the reason it is so hard to get the players to care about the setting, etc. is primiarily (but not solely) because of the DM. You are welcome to disagree with me on this, of course, but for me HE is the one who sets the tone, he is the one who sketches the world and makes the story and adventure move along. It is a difficult, thankless job to be sure ... but the rewards DO come every once in a while, eh? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />When I was speaking about the the experience I described as subtle ... I meant it as something that comes about as a RESULT of good play, yet it is not a set &quot;goal&quot; - it can be a goal you are grateful for when it pops up, but you do not try to artificially &quot;evoke&quot; it as if doing so were some kind of spell one casts or drug one takes for desired results. Often one is not aware of it when in the middle of it - one primarily becomes aware of it (in an &quot;outside of you&quot; sense) after the session or combat or whatever is over. You reflect &quot;Wow that was great!&quot; or some such thing. It is not really something that you can really &quot;attend to&quot; during the game itself. If you are - you are missing the very element that is the primary force in bringing it about - the play itself!Now admittedly this is a personal thing ... not all players share the same interest, but there are many who do, and who love the gratifying reflection of &quot;a session well played&quot; or &quot;an evening well spent&quot; in gaming precisely because of it's memorableness and &quot;realness&quot;.As for the distinction between the adventure and the setting I must apologize for my lack of clarity. For me the setting INCLUDES the adventure. They are not separate things. This may just be a case of confused semantics. This is why I also called it &quot;gameplay&quot; later on.Anyway rounser, I hope our little discussion will be of use to the purpose of the original thread. I also think it is an interesting one to read!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mycanid, post: 3025924, member: 40370"] Rounser ... wow! A fast reply to the post! :) Whether or no the backstory in the game is "irrelevant" to what takes place during the game itself is hard to label. Different players will come across different things. DOn't get me wrong, though! I understand that such "exposition" as you put it CAN be a matter of self-indulgence on the part of the adventure writer, but sometimes it's those extra details that help make the adventure more believable and "matter" more to the player. In other words backstory IS important - what's not is "too much" or "irrelevent" material. But who is to judge this? Most likely the play itself, which can, of course differ in the hands of a DM who is either incompetant or having a bad night or dealing with players who are having a bad night, and the list goes on. I would posit that the reason it is so hard to get the players to care about the setting, etc. is primiarily (but not solely) because of the DM. You are welcome to disagree with me on this, of course, but for me HE is the one who sets the tone, he is the one who sketches the world and makes the story and adventure move along. It is a difficult, thankless job to be sure ... but the rewards DO come every once in a while, eh? :) When I was speaking about the the experience I described as subtle ... I meant it as something that comes about as a RESULT of good play, yet it is not a set "goal" - it can be a goal you are grateful for when it pops up, but you do not try to artificially "evoke" it as if doing so were some kind of spell one casts or drug one takes for desired results. Often one is not aware of it when in the middle of it - one primarily becomes aware of it (in an "outside of you" sense) after the session or combat or whatever is over. You reflect "Wow that was great!" or some such thing. It is not really something that you can really "attend to" during the game itself. If you are - you are missing the very element that is the primary force in bringing it about - the play itself! Now admittedly this is a personal thing ... not all players share the same interest, but there are many who do, and who love the gratifying reflection of "a session well played" or "an evening well spent" in gaming precisely because of it's memorableness and "realness". As for the distinction between the adventure and the setting I must apologize for my lack of clarity. For me the setting INCLUDES the adventure. They are not separate things. This may just be a case of confused semantics. This is why I also called it "gameplay" later on. Anyway rounser, I hope our little discussion will be of use to the purpose of the original thread. I also think it is an interesting one to read! [/QUOTE]

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