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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 2543601" data-attributes="member: 9037">I read a lot about PC balance and class balance in the game. I wanted to bring up some of the  problems with group balance. As in players and DMs. We see a lot tof threads on problem players and bad DMs and people talking about their frustrations.I have noticled that some times all it takes is to bring in a new player or DM or even having a player leave. And you have a fantastic group just go to hell.For example our group had a great run we were all on the same page even though we had different play styles.We had powergamers, immersive role players and your basic kick in the door and open a can of whoop a$$ and everybody got a chance to do what they enjoy.The balance is gone and there is unhapiness for some players. The role players have had to stop role playing the way they used to. The powergames have made characters that marginalized other players and you can't kick in the door because combat takes forever to resolve.  The way combat used to work in our game was that when it was your turn you had about a minute to go if you could not make up your mind the DM moved on and you were acting defensely. We also stayed in character you could only talk if you could say it in 6 seconds so you could say things like so and so help me flank or so and so looks really hurt. But we did not give advice on what to do. combat was fast and it was exiciting.We also had players who role played deep characters who may have not always done what the party would like. But it never caused inter party conflict to the point that it interfeared with everyone's fun.That all changed. Our DM became a player the new DM had never DMed before and we bought in a player that had not played in years. So for example in combat we took more time to explain things we gave advice on the new players opitions. Now we can't seem to break the bad habits combat takes forever everybody tells everyone else what to do. I dread combat now which is bad since it is a big part of the game.Role playing has gone players run rough shod over players they get bent out of shape over things it's not really fun.I have had to make some decisions that kind of hurt. I am leaving several of the group's games. I am not blaming any one I did at first until I realized that we have all played a part in what the game has become. Some are not as bothered as others so they will keep playing and have fun.So does anyone else have any stories on how a change led to the game breaking down?</blockquote>

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