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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dkmurphy" data-source="post: 6994691" data-attributes="member: 6872030">This is exactly why I always speak to a new DM about illusions BEFORE using them. I also bring up PRE-GAME or POST GAME that an opponent has to spend an action to disbelieve it. Turn it around on the players, who know all about magic, at what point would a PC spend an action to dis-believe the illusion when there are so many other possible explanations. You are right that many DM's nerf illusions, too much IMHO. However I have gotten a great deal of mileage out of simple conversations pre and post game. I won't argue with a ruling during a game. Most DM's are trying their best to make a fun game, they are only human and doing things on the fly. They may not remember the specific rules for a specific spell off the top of their head. Having pre and post game conversations makes this a little better. Also when a DM gets a feel for a well played illusionist, it can help them in several ways.They get ideas to use for their monsters. They learn the spell rules a bit better. It is really easy to miss that whole 'spend and action to disbelieve.' Also by telling the DM what you are TRYING to do can really help them adjudicate it, and often it will be in your favor. I think of illusions as really minor Wish spells. If you try to abuse a wish the DM will try to twist it and you will get the short end of the stick. If you police yourself and don't get greedy, you often get much better results. So if the DM hears your description and what you are actually trying to accomplish, it makes his job easier and most DM's will reward that. Also because I DM too, I hate rule arguments during the game, so when I play I save that for after and its amazing what being polite and having a conversation do. DM's appreciate NOT being interrupted and argued with mid game, that also helps. In doing that with several DM's I have gotten away with more than I thought I could and fun was had by all. I think the key is finding a baseline with a DM and if that baseline is such that illusions would be effectively nerfed, then play something else. It will save you much grief. In the meantime try explaining your GOAL with an illusion, not just the description. If gives the DM something to base his ruling on. Most DM's are just trying to have fun, make it easier for them and you get more than you would expect.Tips for illusions: If it is going to interact with creatures in combat, use as others have said spectral foes. Make a ghost rise from a fallen person. Make environmental effects, you can mimic fog for example. Search for illusions on the forum and write down good ideas. Don't do the same thing every time, that gets annoying from the DM perspective and is boring. Think of interesting things you can do to control and modify the area. Many spells can be nearly duplicated with illusions. And with 5e there are no opposition schools, so you can still throw some other things around. Its nice to be an illusionist with magic missile and fireball and summoning spells. Mix them around. If you are DMing, ASK your player what they are really trying to accomplish. Look at the intelligence of a monster, and their culture etc. to see if  there is a good reason for them to fall for or suspect an illusion. As a DM use illusions against the players and see how they react and it will give you a good idea of what a intelligent thinking enemy would do when confronted with them. Like in many things communication is important. If you can make your DM's job easier you will likely get more satisfaction in the end. That said there are definitely DM's I would not bother taking any illusion spells with, they just can't or won't be fair. In that case I would get upset and the DM would get upset which is not fun so why bother playing if it is not fun? So I'll play something else.</blockquote>

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