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[GUIDE] Arrive on Time - A General Guide to Wizardry
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<blockquote data-quote="Arrek" data-source="post: 6997011" data-attributes="member: 6872166"><p>Question on the guide regarding the multi-classing benefits/costs. One of the statements regarding the cost of breaking the <strong>Rule of Two</strong> past a certain point was the limitation on the max-level spells, namely losing access to the level 9 spells or also being limited on the secondary class spells to the limit of that class as if treating it alone. Now I know this is in reference to PHB 164 and the Wiz/Rng combo, but that seems a particularly bad example to use with regards to the Wizards, Cleric and/or Druid MCs. My question is does it really limit the spells known for them?</p><p></p><p>My reading didn't lead me to think so, and I will explain below, but I would you like yalls take on this since my conscience won't let me pursue an exploit build.</p><p></p><p>Reasoning on why Cleric/Druids not being limited - PHB 58/66 For clerics/druids preparing spells is based is seems in the slots you have available specifically . Since slots are based on character level using the 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 ratios, and a Cleric/Wizard would be 1:1, the Cleric side would have slots available to prepare from the general Cleric list no differently than normal. The main cost of the multi-classing being to the domain benefits/spells and the limitation on the number total that can be prepared from the cleric list as level is the main driver.</p><p></p><p>Reasoning for the Wizard- PHB 114 With the wizard I see more limitations placed on them since their spell list is not an innately complete thing (IE the spellbook). Within the description for spells known and prepared it states Same as the Cleric/Druids, excepting the spellbook limitation. Additionally, the PHB only provides two ways of gaining new wizard spells; </p><p>One . This does limit the free spells gained base specifically to the Wizard table and thereby to the wizard level (at least as I read it).</p><p></p><p>However,</p><p></p><p>Two, regarding copying spells to a spellbook and referring back to the previous portion, Wizards can prepare spells for spell slots they have. in general a multiclassed Wizard would not have a spell of a higher slot excepting in this one way. Thus Wizards have the same costs to their spell multiclassing as Clerics/Druids but additionally have a stunted spell list until money, rewards or research (All DM discretion anyways) rectifies the issue.</p><p></p><p>Reasoning based on Multiclass section - PHB 164 Spells Known and Prepared Cleric/Druids determine the list known not based on class level but on spell slots available. Wizards known spells based on a combination between class level (2 per + the starters) and on what is added during the game via the spell book mechanic. The spellbook mechanic being tied to slots, not class level from what I read. For every other class, they are tied down by a specific spells known column.</p><p></p><p>So to reiterate the main question, are the Cleric/Druid/Wizard spells limited by class specific slots even though this doesn't seem to be RAW, or should the mention of spells slots within the class descriptions be treated as saying [class] spell slots? Am I missing some bit of Errata from somewhere that clarifies this? Or should this be a DM decision for our campaign? In truth, I could see it being justified either way and the DM side of my brain is going this may be too powerful, but the player side is going but this seems like it would be so much fun.</p><p></p><p>Thanks in advance for any insight!</p><p></p><p>PS The evil side of my DM brain is now going, Yes Yes you can, but so can I now. Mwahahaha. I'm thinking that may be a nay vote now. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /></p><p></p><p><em>Edit1: Grammatical Fixes.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arrek, post: 6997011, member: 6872166"] Question on the guide regarding the multi-classing benefits/costs. One of the statements regarding the cost of breaking the [B]Rule of Two[/B] past a certain point was the limitation on the max-level spells, namely losing access to the level 9 spells or also being limited on the secondary class spells to the limit of that class as if treating it alone. Now I know this is in reference to PHB 164 and the Wiz/Rng combo, but that seems a particularly bad example to use with regards to the Wizards, Cleric and/or Druid MCs. My question is does it really limit the spells known for them? My reading didn't lead me to think so, and I will explain below, but I would you like yalls take on this since my conscience won't let me pursue an exploit build. Reasoning on why Cleric/Druids not being limited - PHB 58/66 For clerics/druids preparing spells is based is seems in the slots you have available specifically . Since slots are based on character level using the 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 ratios, and a Cleric/Wizard would be 1:1, the Cleric side would have slots available to prepare from the general Cleric list no differently than normal. The main cost of the multi-classing being to the domain benefits/spells and the limitation on the number total that can be prepared from the cleric list as level is the main driver. Reasoning for the Wizard- PHB 114 With the wizard I see more limitations placed on them since their spell list is not an innately complete thing (IE the spellbook). Within the description for spells known and prepared it states Same as the Cleric/Druids, excepting the spellbook limitation. Additionally, the PHB only provides two ways of gaining new wizard spells; One . This does limit the free spells gained base specifically to the Wizard table and thereby to the wizard level (at least as I read it). However, Two, regarding copying spells to a spellbook and referring back to the previous portion, Wizards can prepare spells for spell slots they have. in general a multiclassed Wizard would not have a spell of a higher slot excepting in this one way. Thus Wizards have the same costs to their spell multiclassing as Clerics/Druids but additionally have a stunted spell list until money, rewards or research (All DM discretion anyways) rectifies the issue. Reasoning based on Multiclass section - PHB 164 Spells Known and Prepared Cleric/Druids determine the list known not based on class level but on spell slots available. Wizards known spells based on a combination between class level (2 per + the starters) and on what is added during the game via the spell book mechanic. The spellbook mechanic being tied to slots, not class level from what I read. For every other class, they are tied down by a specific spells known column. So to reiterate the main question, are the Cleric/Druid/Wizard spells limited by class specific slots even though this doesn't seem to be RAW, or should the mention of spells slots within the class descriptions be treated as saying [class] spell slots? Am I missing some bit of Errata from somewhere that clarifies this? Or should this be a DM decision for our campaign? In truth, I could see it being justified either way and the DM side of my brain is going this may be too powerful, but the player side is going but this seems like it would be so much fun. Thanks in advance for any insight! PS The evil side of my DM brain is now going, Yes Yes you can, but so can I now. Mwahahaha. I'm thinking that may be a nay vote now. :uhoh: [I]Edit1: Grammatical Fixes.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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